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Original poster

children can make their own mind up about religion when they grow up...

814 replies

AliGrylls · 07/04/2011 12:05

Okay I have just read this on another thread but this is a statement I hear quite a lot and want to ask the question.

If all you teach your child is atheism how will they make their mind up about religion when they grow up because they have no religion other than atheism?

They will know nothing other than what you have taught them so they have nothing to make their mind up about - they will be atheist, by default. If people genuinely want their children to make their own mind up they have to provide them with a reasonable alternative (ie, Judaism / Christianity / Islam).

I don't actually know any adults who have been brought up atheist who have thought all of a sudden "I believe in God, I am going to go to Church".

OP posts:
Roseflower · 08/04/2011 00:39

So you are imposing your views, not making her aware of different world views

MIFLAW · 08/04/2011 00:39

Rose

So do you list the views of atheists and all known religions past and present so that children can "make their mind up"? Do you go into the creation myth of the Sioux people?

Or do you just tell them about your religion and then say "but some people don't agree" and leave it at that?

Again, what's wrong with saying, "no one knows"?

Fab123 · 08/04/2011 00:42

Roseflower how do you intend to make a child mulit-religious? Otherwise, surely all you are doing is telling them a one sided story anyway - no different to what you don't seem to like about not telling them.

MIFLAW · 08/04/2011 00:42

Do you know what, if my daughter gave me a pair of dice and said, "what number will I throw?" I wouldn't go through the range of numbers 2-12, giving the various bases for "believing" that one or other result would come out.

I would tell her I didn't know, or tell her to throw them and see.

Why, when religion is involved, would it be different? Why should I be at great pains to make sure I had an answer?

Roseflower · 08/04/2011 00:44

Well she is only 4 so she hasnt asked a lot but my dc gets told by my me and DH

"No one knows for sure about x. Some people believe in y . Some people beleive in x. Some people don't beleive in either. What do you think?"

Bearing in mind her age it is very simplified. If she asks me which do you believe I will tell her but say "you need to think if you agree with mummmy but you have a long time to think about it"

DuelingFanjo · 08/04/2011 00:45

In some respects I suppose by saying 'I don't really know why the world exists, it just happened and we evolved into what we are over years and years' and 'when you die you just don't exist anymore but your family remembers you and your body goes back into the earth to provide nutrients for trees and other nature' then I am presenting a certain view but it's the one I believe to be true and I wouldn't actively teach anyone somthing I thought was untrue.

Roseflower · 08/04/2011 00:45

I like educating my child. Thats all.

Fab123 · 08/04/2011 00:47

MIFLAW but that's it precisely - religion is for people who need answers. They need the structure of the bible/koran etc to feel someone or something is telling them what to do in the "right way".
I've always been quite happy that the world is chaotic and full of chance and nothing is certain. Personally I think that is part of what living is all about, not having answers all written in a book.

Roseflower · 08/04/2011 00:48

Fab based on your 1 experience this seems a bit of leap

DuelingFanjo · 08/04/2011 00:48

fair enough. but for me, I don't have religion in my life so it's not somthing that even crosses my mind when thinking of answering those questions.

Fab123 · 08/04/2011 00:49

Roseflower I know religion is apparently dying out, but I do know more than one religious person! I mentioned her as the only person who started out atheist, is all.

Roseflower · 08/04/2011 00:52

If anything it's people who rely on science who need answers. They want things in black and white cut and dried.

Relgion often only leads to more questions. It leaves room for mystery.

Why would the world suddenly be less chaotic, with no chance and everything certain if you religious?

Fab123 · 08/04/2011 00:57

I disagree - I don't feel I need any answers at all. I'm into proving rights or wrongs through science either. I simply get on with my life without worrying about religion one way or the other. It doesn't affect me because I simply don't believe it.

And if you are religious, chances are you think that some god or other has created chaos, therefore it is controlled or controllable to some extent.

MIFLAW · 08/04/2011 00:59

Rose

I like educating my child too.

But I can't "educate" her about things that neither I nor anyone else knows the answer to.

What happens when you die? Well, you stop being. That's it. Hard to understand? So are a lot of things. Hey ho.

You might BELIEVE there's an afterlife. I BELIEVE that green is a more versatile colour than hot pink, but telling my daughter that isn't "educating" her, it's just giving her my opinion.

Roseflower · 08/04/2011 01:00

Fab you are making the classic mistake of thinking all people with a faith must believe x or y because so and so does.

It's far more complex.

Roseflower · 08/04/2011 01:02

^But I can't "educate" her about things that neither I nor anyone else knows the answer to.

What happens when you die? Well, you stop being. That's it. Hard to understand? So are a lot of things. Hey ho.^

Well. On one hand you tell me we cant educate or children on things know one knows the answer too.

The very next breath you tell me with no uncertainity nothing happens after we die! Hmm

Fab123 · 08/04/2011 01:03

And you seem to think that religion leads to mystery... Hmm
I've been careful to not say "everyone" too.

Roseflower · 08/04/2011 01:04

Of course it does

Fab123 · 08/04/2011 01:07

What was left unanswered in your religion then? What is "mysterious" to you? Curious.

MIFLAW · 08/04/2011 01:09

"The very next breath you tell me with no uncertainity nothing happens after we die! Hmm"

No, you have failed to read properly. It is absolutely an observable fact that we cease to be in any recognisable form when we die. Watch a corpse however long you want, it isn't going to get up and dance around. It is very clear that a child relates his or her sense of self strongly to his or her physical being. So there is absolutely no doubt that, in an observable way, we "cease to be".

Is there an afterlife? Well, no one knows. Certainly, there is no logical reaon why there should be one, or any evidence that there IS one, and plenty of physical and metaphysical problems raised if there WAS one; but I concede that no one knows.

But I still don't see what i wrong with saying;

"you stop being" - which the child will understand in a literal, physical sense.

Doubtless, the next question will be "where do I go?" And the answer is ... "I don't know! And nor does anyone else." Another factual answer.

If you then want to talk about something beyond the clouds (but not, of course, actually beyond the clouds, because planes fly there and there's nowt) in the company of a being no one's ever seen and who made us but also didn't make us, because, you see, well ... Then I'm afraid I have to leave that brand of "education" to the experts.

DuelingFanjo · 08/04/2011 01:09

FWIW I am not a great fan of science either.

we are just here, that's it. I don't need an explanation for being.

Roseflower · 08/04/2011 01:11

The world is inherently mysterious and fasinating. I dont think any book including the bible provides every answer.I don't think its meant too.

CheerfulYank · 08/04/2011 01:12

I agree with those who say they can't tell their children anything other than what they believe. I get irritated when people tell me I'm "indoctrinating" DS when I tell him that "Mommy believes" there is a God and that there is something in us that survives physical death. It's true!

If you don't believe these things, I don't see why you would lie to your DCs. All you can do is tell them what you believe, a brief outline of what others believe, and move on.

CheerfulYank · 08/04/2011 01:12

I meant, it's true that I believe it. :)

Roseflower · 08/04/2011 01:15

I dont think I failed to read it properly. I think it would be fair to say from your statement that it would appear you meant we cease to exsist in every way (physically and spiritually)

Yet I guess I made a mistake in assuming, as an athiest you didnt believe in the possiblilty (not certainity) of a sepearate self to the physical one.

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