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Original poster

children can make their own mind up about religion when they grow up...

814 replies

AliGrylls · 07/04/2011 12:05

Okay I have just read this on another thread but this is a statement I hear quite a lot and want to ask the question.

If all you teach your child is atheism how will they make their mind up about religion when they grow up because they have no religion other than atheism?

They will know nothing other than what you have taught them so they have nothing to make their mind up about - they will be atheist, by default. If people genuinely want their children to make their own mind up they have to provide them with a reasonable alternative (ie, Judaism / Christianity / Islam).

I don't actually know any adults who have been brought up atheist who have thought all of a sudden "I believe in God, I am going to go to Church".

OP posts:
MillyR · 07/04/2011 23:50

I am not saying anything of the sort. As I posted earlier, I think bringing a child up with belief can damage them as an adult. Dawkins' Christian upbringing could have had a negative impact on his emotional state as an adult.

But people on here seem to be arguing as if bringing a child up to make a choice is about whether or not they know the bible and go to church on Sunday. Surely we bring our children up to be happy and emotionally secure, not to profess something.

ivykaty44 · 07/04/2011 23:51

you have suggest before about reading these education acts, I can't remember which ones it was you said I should read, I have a feeling you never linked to them..?

exoticfruits · 07/04/2011 23:52

Probably would have been, ivykate, if my father hadn't banged on like some people on this thread! The sledgehammer approach was personal experience-I don't like being told what to think and didn't like it as a DC! Definitely signing out and going to bed.

exoticfruits · 07/04/2011 23:53

Not really sure-probably 1998 but could be wrong.

TheCoalitionNeedsYou · 07/04/2011 23:53

It is a bit like saying you should teach your children a bit of eugenics so that they can make their own mind up about whether to be racist/disabledist or not.

VodkawithRosie · 07/04/2011 23:54

Dueling that is us to a t, and it's so difficult to manage to do that once you are presented with questions from DC at school as religion is then forced into their daily lives at an age where they believe it to be true.

So you have to opt for discussing it and including the non-belief viewpoint, or glossing over it until they are old enough to make up their own minds.

With no religion in school this would not be an issue, their would still be learning available if that was the child's (or family's I guess) wish, but outside the school so lives could be carried on without the belief/non-belief non question arising at all or at least a darn sight less.

Roseflower · 07/04/2011 23:55

Strange comparsion.
Seeing as relgion is a massive part of culture (hence at least three massive threads on here in one night) then to not teach your child anything to do with any religion is just letting them be ignorant and at disadvantge in life.

DuelingFanjo · 08/04/2011 00:02

I can understand and love the Leonard Cohen song 'Hallelujia' and even understand the religious imagery but that doesn't mean I had to be taught about heaven and hell as a 3 year old or that because I wasn't I am somehow missing out / ignorant!

Roseflower · 08/04/2011 00:06

I have worked/ volunteered in a few schools and the relgious teachings are all quite tame and positive.
But if you never let your dc come into contact with religion I do not understand how that is of any benefit

ivykaty44 · 08/04/2011 00:11

You need to come clean exotic and realsie and be true to yourself, your father may have banged on about it as a child and as a teen, but your an adult now and you don't need to rebel any longer Grin

To you religion is there as you wanted only to rebel, that isn't a logical reason to go to church or have faith - just to spite your father.

To you in all of your posts its about not doing what your parents tell you - this comes across very strongly that you do something just because it isn't what your parents did and you think your dc will have to do the opposite to you as well.

This isn't really how it all works and you seem so tied up in doing the opposite from your family instead of using a bit of logic and looking for yourself at your reasons for believing or not -its not to to the opposite of your dad but to do what you think is the logical answer to the question.

it isn't about an educational act either

GrimmaTheNome · 08/04/2011 00:12

'indocrimation' - is that a portmanteau describing the recrimination which follows unsuccessful attempts to indoctrinate? Grin

exotic, of course in a free country not everyone follows their parents. I come from an overwhelmingly Christian family (GP a minister; parents elders; uncles were a medical missionary, a methodist lay preacher, a URC elder and an Anglican churchwarden); brothers both still christian - I (and one or two of my cousins) broke away. But neverthereless, oftener than not people do follow their parents to a greater or lesser extent - most people aren't so contrary-minded as a typical MNer I suspect Grin. As someone said, look at Ireland. The OP mentioned Islam as a 'reasonable alternative' - actually could be quite problematic if you live in a country where they take apostasy seriously - you're really not supposed to 'make up your own mind' once you're in, as far as I can tell.

DuelingFanjo · 08/04/2011 00:12

what are the benefits of being told there's such a thing as heaven and hell and god and jesus?

I can't see any benefits to it.

I don't feel at all disadvantaged by my lack of religious teaching or in any way advantaged by the religious teaching I was exposed to in school or since.

I don't know much about different religions but to present them as fact to young children is, IMO, wrong.

Fab123 · 08/04/2011 00:15

Both of my parents were atheist and sent me to a Methodist school as they thought it was "wishy washy" enough for me not to be harmed by religion [sceptical]. We had a church on campus and had evening prayers once a week, long assemblies...and nope. Not religious, not even curious. Best thing about it all were the hymns (now THAT is a sense of community and working together for kids) but we used to all feel bored and wonder why we were wasting our time.

Only person I know who converted to religion is my friend who became manic depressive schizophrenic at 18. After 3 long stays in mental hospitals she came out a born again evangelical something or other. Now always carries her bible about with post-its marking "relevant" spots. I don't deny her her version of hope and am glad that she has this crutch. But really IMO it does somewhat show how low and unstable you need to be to grasp at religious straws

Roseflower · 08/04/2011 00:18

Dueling many people find benefits to finding about relgion. I understand you personally can't; but many can.

How can you be so sure of anything if you haven't explored things in depth (not having a go just wondering)

If it is simply the fact you dont think it should be presented as fact; fair enough I can see your point- but my concern was not letting dc have exposure to it even as an idea

Roseflower · 08/04/2011 00:20

But really IMO it does somewhat show how low and unstable you need to be to grasp at religious straws

Based on your one example out of billions? Hmm

GrimmaTheNome · 08/04/2011 00:21

to not teach your child anything to do with any religion ...

very few people advocate that. Most say they do want their children to learn about religions. Just not to be made to practise it, or to be told (implicitly or explicitly) that any particular brand represents the Truth.

MillyR · 08/04/2011 00:23

Why would somebody suggest to a child that hell might possibly exist? I would no more do that then suggest that it might be a possibility that if they don't finish their dinner, they may be gored to death by a wild animal in the future.

Roseflower · 08/04/2011 00:23

which I understand. My concern is people who might not want a child even learning about a religion. Im sure we can agree that would not be good?

DuelingFanjo · 08/04/2011 00:24

"many people find benefits to finding about relgion"

I don't doubt it. it's just a real shame we can't let kids find out about religion themselves when they are adults, rather than telling impressionable young minds that it's all true and fact.

I am 100% sure that I don't have any belief in any god, I know that is certainly true - no doubt about it. I am also 100% sure that when I came into this world I had no belief in god at all.

Roseflower · 08/04/2011 00:26

But waiting until they are adults... I dont see how that could work in reality. Surely its natural to start asking "why does the world exsist" , "what happens when we die" type questions as child.

MIFLAW · 08/04/2011 00:34

"Surely its natural to start asking "why does the world exsist" , "what happens when we die" type questions as child."

Of course it is.

It's just not natural to answer them with fairy stories rather than, say, "I don't know."

DuelingFanjo · 08/04/2011 00:34

but why should either of those questions be answered using religion?

Roseflower · 08/04/2011 00:35

Becuase if you present one view only there is no letting them make their mind up.

DuelingFanjo · 08/04/2011 00:38

but I don't have two views. If my child asked me my educated view on those two questions then there jis is no religious response that they would get from me and I would be quite annoyed if someone else thought the appropriate response to my child asking those questions was a religious one.

DuelingFanjo · 08/04/2011 00:39

what would your response to those questions be Rose?

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