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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

children can make their own mind up about religion when they grow up...

814 replies

AliGrylls · 07/04/2011 12:05

Okay I have just read this on another thread but this is a statement I hear quite a lot and want to ask the question.

If all you teach your child is atheism how will they make their mind up about religion when they grow up because they have no religion other than atheism?

They will know nothing other than what you have taught them so they have nothing to make their mind up about - they will be atheist, by default. If people genuinely want their children to make their own mind up they have to provide them with a reasonable alternative (ie, Judaism / Christianity / Islam).

I don't actually know any adults who have been brought up atheist who have thought all of a sudden "I believe in God, I am going to go to Church".

OP posts:
DuelingFanjo · 07/04/2011 23:36

"Why do you need to teach your DC to resist Duellingfanjo?"

taught to resist was probably a bad phrase by me. I mean he will have this thing called religion thrust upon him when up to then he will have been raised completely without religion. Schools do tend to teach christianity as fact don't they? I think that is just crazy and it will be so annoying to have to safeguard my child from all that stuff which will be taught as if it's true! It's such a pain that I will have to do all that 'well some people believe this' stuff.

VodkawithRosie · 07/04/2011 23:37

I don't think it's so much a case of 'resisting', but the whole waste of time and energy. It is not important, or fact other than in the context of how it has impacted culturally and socially, which imo could be studied as a part of history further on in education, and then later as a choice.

I just find it bizarre that it is this massive time consuming thing in (if you live rurally) every available school, even more so when as you say 'no-one became christian sitting through school assemblies'

ivykaty44 · 07/04/2011 23:37

why not teach all dc astrology and greek mythology

TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 07/04/2011 23:38

My mum was a Roman Catholic convent girl then agnostic / pagan (hippy vintage) as an adult. She refused to let us go to Catholic or religious school but even now if I don't know a Bible or theology question in a quiz or a general discussion she'll get really annoyed. "Don't you know this Tondey? Didn't you do this in school?" (about some obscure New Testament doodah) "Er, no...I wasn't taught by batshit crazy nuns..."

A1980 · 07/04/2011 23:38

Having said that.... even though I didnt grow up a believer, I still get a profound sense of nostalgia for church, prayers, especially at Christmas time. I find it comforting. My school always said prayers at assembly and lunchtime.

Even if they don't grow up beleivers, alot can be learned from RE and it can enrich the school experience as it did mine. I'm glad my school expereince included religion even though i don't beleive.

VodkawithRosie · 07/04/2011 23:39

I'm clumsily trying to say tat it is irrelevant in our lives, unlike the other things they are learning at school.

I would feel the same if they were to be learning astrology or herbalism for example as regularly.

Roseflower · 07/04/2011 23:39

Well Richard Dawkins was raised in Anglicanism and confirmed in the Church of England. Look how that one turned out.

DuelingFanjo · 07/04/2011 23:39

yes VidkawithRosie says it better than I can.

MillyR · 07/04/2011 23:40

I don't know how Richard Dawkins did turn out. He doesn't talk much about his personal contentment or general emotional state.

RedbinD · 07/04/2011 23:41

It's worth reading the bible just to understand what a women hating being god is. I suspect that the koran is probably that way inclined as well.

Roseflower · 07/04/2011 23:41

MillyR? What?!

VodkawithRosie · 07/04/2011 23:42

Rose I meant why would they be exposed to religion before school?

ivykaty44 · 07/04/2011 23:42

children will rebel and run as fast as they can in the other direction.

Do you know a single DC who became a Christian through school assemblies? I don't! The churches would be full if that was the case.

exactly my point - so why bother having religion in schools if all it is going to do is make children rebel against religion and not one single child I know has became a christian through going to school assemblies - so lets stop them and get religion out of schools

exoticfruits · 07/04/2011 23:43

I am off to bed-my last word is that you will be disappointed if you think that giving birth means that you can tell your DC what they should think.
Life isn't like that.

Up to 5/6yrs DCs are very much 'my mummy thinks' meaning I think.
5/6/7yrs you get Miss Jones thinks-which infuriates parents if the teacher is taking a different view.(especially true on religion)
8+ years DCs form their own views.
They generally do as you do, especially if you do it quietly. You don't need the sledgehammer approach! Certain personalities rebel if you are too dogmatic-others just keep quiet and do their own thing later. No one forms their belief 'because mummy says so'.

Having know a lot of local DCs from babyhood to 18 I can certainly tell you that you get a lot of surprises and they don't all turn out as you expect, or their parents expected!

TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 07/04/2011 23:43

Is it too soon to link to Atheist Barbie?

TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 07/04/2011 23:44

Thanks for your advice exoticfruits - when eventually the rest of us become mothers we'll certainly bear it in mind...

Roseflower · 07/04/2011 23:45

Vodka I didnt say before school but at some point in life (even if you strictly forbid it) because it is a massive part of our culture. Perhaps through TV, films, books, music, friends, family, attending weddings, funerals, people's conversations.

I think our society is fairly secualr anyway and it would be possible to escape any mention of relgion fairly easily while they are still young if you were keen

TheCoalitionNeedsYou · 07/04/2011 23:45

The problem is that even if it does not produce belief it does promote the idea that religion and faith are things that are deserving of inherent respect rather than being treated on their own merits like other idea. It promotes the idea that they are a thing apart.

MillyR · 07/04/2011 23:45

Roseflower, I would have thought the main purpose of bringing someone up in any particular way is to have an impact on their personal happiness, sense of self, behaviour towards others and so on.

That must be the case with Richard Dawkins as much as anybody else.

So, no, I don't know much about how he has turned out as a person.

TheCoalitionNeedsYou · 07/04/2011 23:46

TondelayoSchwarzkopf - I love the idea of surprise orgies.

exoticfruits · 07/04/2011 23:46

I think that people ought to read the education acts and they would see why you can't just have parents saying they don't like it. To get change you need an act of parliament. I would guess that it won't come until state and church are separate-I expect it will come eventually.

VodkawithRosie · 07/04/2011 23:47

Off to bed too, MiilyR it appears you have fallen into the tiresome trap of assuming no belief = unhappiness.

I guess I make a similar assumption when I think that unhappiness + nowhere to turn = born again christian, however I don't allow myself to actually believe that without proof. Proof. Yes.

DuelingFanjo · 07/04/2011 23:48

"if you think that giving birth means that you can tell your DC what they should think"

why then do teachers/schools insist on trying to do so by teaching them religious claptrap?

The whole point of raising a child without religion is that you are not in any way attempting to tell them what they should think. Many parents raise their children with an absence of religion - ie it is just not present in their lives, it is not talked about even negatively. It's just not there. This isn't telling kids what to think.

On the other hand many many kids are taught from a very young age that there is this that or the other god, as if it is some kind of fact of life. So they are raised to think, for example, that there was a jesus and a mary and judas in the same way they are taught their abc or 123. It's just awful.

VodkawithRosie · 07/04/2011 23:48

Ah Rose I misunderstood you
Maybe you too Milly, I'm not sure?

ivykaty44 · 07/04/2011 23:49

I think you are really a closet atheist exoctic, I think one day you will see the light and come out and rebel against your religion Grin