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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

in telling DS that God didn't make him, actually, I did.

173 replies

bintofbohemia · 06/04/2011 17:44

(With some input from DH, obviously.) He's at a C of E school because we've recently moved and it was Hobsons Choice, C of E or Catholic. He's 4 and a half and started school at a really good, diverse, secular school, then we moved and he is now being taught that God is a man who made everything and he has to pray 3 times a day and is being taught god knows what else.

It just really irks me. What worries me the most is that yes, when he gets older he'll probably make his own mind up but that if he's being taught all this stuff as fact alongside his abc and numbers (which actually are real things) he's liable to find that he absorbs all this stuff and it becomes his default setting, IYSWIM. I'm not an atheist or anti Christian but I do have problems with faith schools and children being taught this stuff at such an impressionable age.

I'm tempted to pull him out of assemblies etc but I don't know if it's the right thing to do, and they'd still get him in classes anyway no doubt.

Anyone else have this?

OP posts:

FabbyChic · 06/04/2011 17:46

I wouldn't let one of my children endure that. They have to make up their own mind when they get older.

My son is 17 and a die hard Athiest made up his own mind, and he puts forward a good argument about it too, no one can win against him.

I hate god botherers.

hanaka88 · 06/04/2011 17:47

Just teach him about other religions.
'some people believe that but other people believe x'

even in non faith schools there are some religious aspects especially near Easter and christmas. But these are balanced by also celebrating Diwali etc.

Tryharder · 06/04/2011 17:48

But God gave you the ability to have children didn't He?

I would just explain to him that the religious stuff is what some people believe but that others believe x, y and z and when he's a big boy he can make his own mind up.

Perpetuallypregnant · 06/04/2011 17:50

YANBU to tell him
but YABU not to expect this sort of thing because you sent him to a catholic school in the first place.
They are all like that.

I am an atheist but i appreciate that most schools will teach my dcs about religion and christianity. I just tell them what i think and let them make their own mind up. Obviously it gets easier as they get older. I was brought up a Christian but made my own mind up as i got older as did my peers.

Original poster

bintofbohemia · 06/04/2011 17:55

I've just been having a chat with him and telling him that there are so many different religions and he can choose when he is older. He told me the reverend went in and told them that God made them all and died for them. I had no idea it was going to be as Goddy as all this, but short of pay thousands which we don't have there is no option.

He's just said that the teacher said it so it must be true, and he is a Christian. I'm going to have to get him to Stonehenge for the Solstice or sommat...

OP posts:

grovel · 06/04/2011 17:57

I'm glad I was brought up a Christian (and then dumped it) if only because so much of our literary heritage, our art, our language and our music is / was motivated by Christainity, Bible stories etc. At least I understand where it's coming from.

Oblomov · 06/04/2011 18:05

perpetuallypreg, OP's ds is not at a cathlic school, he's at a C of E one.
And not all catholic schools are like 'that'. Ds1(7) is at a very catholic school and this term thye have been discussing how babies are made. And as far as I could work out, from what he told me, everyhting was factually correct.

Oblomov · 06/04/2011 18:07

OP, no choice at all fro another school, other than a religious one? Did you not think about this before, before moving, if it is such a big deal to you ?
Can you not move schools ?

Numberfour · 06/04/2011 18:10

DS aged 6 keeps on talking about Jesus at the moment, it being so close to Easter. I childmind, and I had all 3 six year olds in the car yesterday declaring that they were Christians. Must be that time of year again.

FunnyBumbleBee · 06/04/2011 18:14

I was brought up from birth as a much more strict kind of Christian than C of E and it has had no effect on my ability to make up my own mind. Just try not to make a big deal out if it and remind him gently that some people believe different things.

CharlieCoCo · 06/04/2011 18:14

i like your pun-being taught god knows what else-was that intentional :o

smokinaces · 06/04/2011 18:20

My DS1 is at a non-church school. However, they have the reverend of the church come in every now and then - and DS1 is often taught things about God, and Jesus and the Church. He also learns about the Easter Bunny and Diwali and other things - covers everything but slightly heavier bias on the Christianity (predominantly white christian enrollment)

This doesnt bother me as I am a Christian, and although dont practise grew up with Sunday School/Brownies etc. I can however see that if you are not its a difficult subject to tolerate in large amounts.

Could you speak to the school? Ask how many children sit out of assemblies/what their teachings are of other religions etc?

BTSynergy · 06/04/2011 18:32

Yes, we had that too.

DS seemed to come out of school one day obsessed with the idea of God and Jesus. He managed to get them into nearly every conversation, told us that every statue was God/Mary/Jesus...he even asked us questions so that he could tell us we were wrong. e.g. 'Mummy, why do we have rivers' - I start the explanation to be interrupted with 'No! God made them - you are wrong'.

I remember being irritated that he was being told a lot of beliefs as facts and he took them as such. He had no concept at all that there were other religions or ways of thinking. So I told him the basics of the other major world religions, we talked about the difference between belief and fact and I shared with him my beliefs (atheist).

He decided fairly soon after our little talks that he is also an atheist. TBH it made me a little sad that he couldn't stay innocent for a while longer but hey ho. He is still an atheist (as much as any young child can be) and understands that different people believe different things but if they are not based on evidence they are not facts and he shouldn't let anyone tell him what to believe (including me). I hope he is starting to understand that this is an historically Christian country and as such Christianity is an important part of our history and hertiage so the stories are relevant to him.

minipie · 06/04/2011 18:48

Yet another example of why I do not agree with faith schools.

OP, I think the best you can do is tell him that the teachers/reverend at school believe in God/Jesus, but not everybody does. And tell him about other religions, and that some people don't believe in any God.

Original poster

bintofbohemia · 06/04/2011 18:49

I think it bothers me because as a feminist (and the closest you could come to pigeonholing my beliefs is to call me a pagan, we had a pagan wedding) this whole "God (a man) made us and saved us" business grates a bit.

I dunno, maybe I am overthinking it, am sure he will make up his own mind, I would just prefer it to be of his own accord, rather than this sort of (not so subtle) conditioning taking place at school.

It is parents' evening tomorrow, I might mention it and see what they say about it all, but am seriously thinking I might pull him from the going to church outings, especially as he's now demanding to be christened!

BT I know where you're coming from with the innocence thing, and I'd hate him to lose it entirely. I've had a similar conversation with him tonight about other religions but he says everyone else is wrong and his teachers and the Reverend is right.

"people believe different things but if they are not based on evidence they are not facts and he shouldn't let anyone tell him what to believe (including me). " I like this, this is exactly what I am trying to convey to him.

OP posts:

smokinaces · 06/04/2011 18:55

The problem is bint, that Christians do believe that their Bible is evidence enough. So they teach it as fact. In a CofE school there's no getting away from that I dont think

seeker · 06/04/2011 19:00

What really, really infuriates me is that all schools in this country have this sort of stuff - even non faith schools have to have "daily collective worship that is broadly Christian in nature"

Absolutely outrageous.

pigletmania · 06/04/2011 19:04

Well it is a church school what do you expect! Are there no other non religious primary schools in the area. Does not sound like the school for you. LIke others have said you could tell him that some people believe in God and that he made everything, but others like us dont, and tell him about your beliefs.

Snobear4000 · 06/04/2011 19:07

Also let him know that when he achieves in sport, or maths, or a spelling-bee, it was not God that made it happen, it was him, and he can be proud of his own fantastic efforts. Teach him also, that when someone survives a plane crash, that it was not God who helped them survive, as that would mean God hates all the other people who perished. Teach him that, when he's watching the olympics, that no matter how many athletes thank God for their gold medal, once again, God did not hate all the other runners in the race, it was indeed, the natural talents, skills, performance enhancing drugs, training and coaching that earned the gold. Same with acceptance speeches at the Grammys, Oscars and Brits. And when the massive achievements of medical science, the skills and dedication of doctors and nurses, new drugs and a bit of luck save him, yourself or another family member from cancer, God had nothing to do with it, for if there was a God, he would never have been cunt enough to invented shitting cancer in the first place.

rockinhippy · 06/04/2011 19:08

Don't worry, it wont have lasting effect & he'll make his own mind up anyway -

I grew up with pretty much the same & Sunday School on top too - didn't take me long to work it out for myself at quite a young age & have a pretty well balanced view of religion & faith on the whole - well faith at least - I tend to bl@@dy hate religion, as don't like all the we are right in our faith, they are wrong in theres

Thankfully we don't have any of that in DDs School, they teach ALL religions & celebrate all the main religious festivals, so she's very tolerant & understanding of religions in general, but has decided all on her own, "that all religions are the same thing really" & she believes in Angels :)

rockinhippy · 06/04/2011 19:09

wrong in theirs - I keep doing that today:(

bellastella · 06/04/2011 19:22

One of my friends said to me that she was forcing church upon her son for as long as possible so that when he reached his rebellious phase, he could rebel against going to church and not her! Kids are like little sponges, they'll suck up anything teachers say, be it what you want them to know or not. I wouldn't be particularly worried, I sucked it all up, told my parents they were going to hell and promptly dismissed it all as bollocks eventually! You'll all be fine :-)

Original poster

bintofbohemia · 06/04/2011 19:31

Hello smokin

I do think it's drastically unfair that I would need to pay £2k per term to get him into a non-faith school in this area. And he'd be back to square one when he got to juniors anyway.

I really can't believe we have faith schools in this country, it's totally barmy and I really hope they get outlawed at some point.

Good post Snobear.

OP posts:

Parmallama · 06/04/2011 19:34

You would of course be perfectly in your rights to take your child out of school and home teach him yourself...

Is that a feasible option (seeing as you find this school so offensive)?

Roseflower · 06/04/2011 19:35

You just recently moved. Is there a reason you didn't research more carefully about the local schools before doing so?

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