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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

in telling DS that God didn't make him, actually, I did.

173 replies

bintofbohemia · 06/04/2011 17:44

(With some input from DH, obviously.) He's at a C of E school because we've recently moved and it was Hobsons Choice, C of E or Catholic. He's 4 and a half and started school at a really good, diverse, secular school, then we moved and he is now being taught that God is a man who made everything and he has to pray 3 times a day and is being taught god knows what else.

It just really irks me. What worries me the most is that yes, when he gets older he'll probably make his own mind up but that if he's being taught all this stuff as fact alongside his abc and numbers (which actually are real things) he's liable to find that he absorbs all this stuff and it becomes his default setting, IYSWIM. I'm not an atheist or anti Christian but I do have problems with faith schools and children being taught this stuff at such an impressionable age.

I'm tempted to pull him out of assemblies etc but I don't know if it's the right thing to do, and they'd still get him in classes anyway no doubt.

Anyone else have this?

OP posts:
Original poster
bintofbohemia · 06/04/2011 19:40

Rose - we had 4 weeks to get everything together. I researched the schools in the area, ruled out the Catholic one and hoped that the C of E one would be fairly benign as I know other people who've been to/sent children to similar and not had this level of Godness. It seems like a nice enough school in other respects.

OP posts:
partyhats · 06/04/2011 20:01

I don't understand what the problem is. He is only learning about God not satanic worship, how is it going to harm him, what are you so fearful of? YABU should of thought of it before you sent him there.

Original poster
bintofbohemia · 06/04/2011 20:10

party - am worried it might harm his capacity for independent thought as it is essentially brainwashing him from the age of four and a half, and I'm not sure that denying that claiming that god, rather than a man and a woman make a child is really the best and most informed way to proceed...Hmm

OP posts:
Parmallama · 06/04/2011 20:15

On the flip side though...one could say that your pagan beliefs and leanings might also harm his capacity for independent thought.

My view is that yes kids are sponges...but they are not easily indoctrinated..and do tend to make their own minds up.

If you are against the school and it's teachings/ethos then (instead of pulling him out of assemblies and making a special case of him) it might be better to look at other options...such as home teaching.

Original poster
bintofbohemia · 06/04/2011 20:21

Parma - they might, if I discussed them with him, but I keep my thoughts about what I believe to myself to be honest as I really want him to explore religion/spirituality by himself and to come to his own conclusions.

Home ed not an option - but just been chatting to DH who pointed out that the junior school is a community school (I guess because the Catholics and C of E's all go together?) so hopefully in a few years it will all be a bit more balanced. I'm just going to try to find out if there are any secular schools in the area, but I don't know of any off the top of my head...

OP posts:
GrimmaTheNome · 06/04/2011 20:27

YABU should of thought of it before you sent him there.

Oh for goodness sakes. People need to move for all sorts of reasons, and may end up in areas like mine where every one of the surrounding schools is CofE or RC. (we were lucky enough to be able to buy our way out). If there must be faith state schools, they surely shouldn't be so totally out of proportion to the numbers of actual church attenders. What on earth was the OP supposed to do? Confused

Bint, do what you can to fill his mind with reality. Take him to museums. Take him to zoos. Teach him about dinosaurs etc. I don't remember ever actually telling my DD who did or didn't make her, but at about 6 when an older child glibly said something about God making the animals, DD was able to say, 'No, they evolved' (at which point I had to diplomatically weigh in with the 'some people believe ...' line)

CheerfulYank · 06/04/2011 20:27

Hmm...I wouldn't have a problem with it but I am a Christian so probably not the best judge.

The other day when we were praying DS (almost 4) said "God didn't give us the food, you did!" I said that was certainly true but "Mommy believes that the world and the growing things were planned by God, so in a roundabout way It did give them to us, but not everyone thinks so."

I like to think I'm bringing him up to know his own mind, but I can't lie to him about what I believe certainly.

What does your DS say when you say "Some people believe that" ?

Parmallama · 06/04/2011 20:27

Only suggested it because I know of someone (not me I hasten to add) who is a bit of a puritanical christian and didn't want her kids to be educated in 'worldly' schools...

She and her husband were both on benefits (so not wealthy by any means).
Can be done but takes a lot of commitment....

I think that kids do indirectly (if not directly) pick up their parents views on things (as is normal). They are going to be exposed to all sorts of influences in their young lives, but as I said...they do tend to make up their own minds about things. Their intelligence should not be under-estimated (not saying you are doing that...I hasten to add).

Oblomov · 06/04/2011 20:30

bint, could you plese answer the question that roseflower and I have asked. why did you move to a place thta only has religious schools, when you object to religious schools so much. it doesn't make sense.

Parmallama · 06/04/2011 20:37

Curious to know what this place is that only has faith schools...

and I have to say that here in London I know of a very dissapointed mother (again not me) who would have loved to have got her child into a catholic school but could not.

Places at faith schools are very much in demand...as the majority of schools do not have christian influence/assemblies now...and cannot celebrate and enjoy the traditionally christian festivals like easter anymore...as they are multi cultural and are very much compromised in what they can do (contrary to some of the posts).

I think that if you're not prepared to back a school and what it's teachings are then you should free that place up for another child...whose parents will appreciate the teachings and education.

seeker · 06/04/2011 20:41

All English state schools are religious schools.

Parmallama · 06/04/2011 20:42

No way!

Original poster
bintofbohemia · 06/04/2011 20:50

Oblomov - as Grimma says above, there were many factors involved in our moving, schools were but one.

Parma - live in a fairly rural area in Yorkshire. Two infants schools in the town, both religious. Next village has a C of E school. There is a private school but that's not an option, and is probably religious too. I haven't yet managed to find a secular school on the local council website that is nearer than the next big city (nearly an hour away.) Are you actually saying that as a non Christian I should not be bringing up my child in an area where the schools are all Christian? Hmm What if I was a Hindu, I should just not live here to keep school places free for proper Christians? Hmm

OP posts:
Parmallama · 06/04/2011 20:54

No I'm not saying that...what I'm saying is that if you have such strong objections and think the education would be damaging to your child you should think about alternatives.

I think parents should be supportive of the schools that they send their kids to...

Original poster
bintofbohemia · 06/04/2011 20:57

And what would the alternatives be in this instance? Home ed is out, and we can't move as we came here for economic reasons in the first place.

OP posts:
pointythings · 06/04/2011 21:15

Sympathy, bint - and to all the posters who are querying your choice of location - ever heard of needing to move to live near where your job is?

My DDs go to a C of E school (though definitely not as goddy as yours!) and went through this phase too. I'm an atheist, DH is a non-churchgoing Christian (doesn't believe in organised religion) so we handled it by talking honestly to our children about our own beliefs, or lack of them. For us the turning point came when DD1 told me that I had to be a Christian and we had a long discussion about freedom to choose one's religion - as in, her freedom to choose to be a Christian and my freedom to choose not to be one. She was 5 at the time, but it stuck. To be fair the school did not teach Christianity in the 'you must believe this and pray 3 times a day' way, and they did discuss other religions as being of equal worth so I lucked out there.
DD1 has now decided that she is an atheist (she's 10 now and this is recent) and her arguments are very powerful. DH and I have left her to reach her own conclusions. DD2 isn't sure so I described agnosticism to her and she thinks that's what she is, but she's only 8. They both wanted their census forms to state 'no religion'.

So it does pass, and they do find their own way - as a parent you still have more power to make them see the need for independent thinking, seeking and coming to belief (or not) than the school does.

GrimmaTheNome · 06/04/2011 21:22

We moved to where we live for DHs job, before we had DD, we had come from areas where there wasn't this weird overprovision of faith schools so it never entered our thought processes when we were househunting. Do some of the posters questioning the OP seriously think that, had we been unable to afford private, we should have been forced to move house when we had DD in order to get a non-church state school? Hmm

Pykel · 06/04/2011 22:19

huge sympathies for you OP - totally understand where you are coming from. I won't add much to the religious education argument as there are many sane comments on this thread however I would like to ask many of the posters who suggest simply moving Hmm or home edding whether they live in the real world?

We moved to our current home in the height of the property boom shortly before our first was born so we are financially stuck in this home for a while. We were yesterday allocated a CofE school as our local schools are massively oversubscribed (first two choices both 0.3 miles away rejected). I will shortly be going back to work part-time so home edding is out.

Would love to receive some suggestions as to what you think i should do? perhaps simply put him through fee-paying school?

Sorry if this post seems terse but it has hit a very raw nerve for me. Why should my (or any other non-believing family's) child have to go to a religious school when they are not believers?

I love the idea that some posters think we have a choice about the matter. amusing.

rebl · 06/04/2011 22:20

My dd goes to a church school and I'm a practicing Christian. I think where I struggle with what is taught to the reception children is that there are different meanings to the words.

OP you say that your ds has been told that God made us. You and I understand that in the spirital way. 4 year olds take that literally and its clearly not been explained that Mummy and Daddy physically made him. I've had "God is my Father so who is Daddy?" Its clearly not properly explained. This is the failing in some CofE schools imo.

Pykel · 06/04/2011 22:21

phew looks as though some sane posters have joined the thread ^^

jeez how very dare you non-believe OP. Move/home ed/pay for school if you don't like it!

MrBloomEatsVeggies · 06/04/2011 22:21

YABU. God made him, and you. HTH.

Pykel · 06/04/2011 22:24

lol mrbloom

CocktailQueen · 06/04/2011 22:25

if you don't like it, take him out of a faith school and enrol him in a non-denominational one. Didn't you check what it would be like before he started?

Pykel · 06/04/2011 22:27

what if OP doesn't have a choice CocktailQueen? What about if all the other local schools are religious and/or oversubscribed? it's just not that easy is it?

squeakytoy · 06/04/2011 22:33

party - am worried it might harm his capacity for independent thought as it is essentially brainwashing him from the age of four and a half, and I'm not sure that denying that claiming that god, rather than a man and a woman make a child is really the best and most informed way to proceed

does he believe in Father Christmas?

It will not harm his capacity for indepent thought. :)