to think this should not be logged as a 'racist incident'?

[StarlightMcKenzie]

I'll try to give all the facts here so that it doesn't come out in drips but I'd appreciate any good quality advice how to handle this too.

My ds deliberately went up to a black girl at school and said 'chocolate face'.

My ds has ASD.

We have worked extremely hard with ds and the attributes of his ASD that affect him most are not behavioural, but social communication, reading emotions and facial expressions.

We have spent a couple of weeks getting ds to concentrate on people's faces and talk about the differences in them and how they are different.

We have been also working on the theme of 'looks like' or 'same as' i.e. yellow pen looks like a banana. Hand looks like a foot etc etc.

The school say they have to log the incident as a 'racial' incident, but my ds has no idea about races, and there was no racial intent, although I do not dispute that he meant what he said, or at the very least that the little girl had a face 'like' or 'same as' chocolate.

I am gutted to the core that my ds has his name in this 'log' and am really desperate for advice on what to do about it.

I do not for one second dispute that the teacher has to be seen to be doing the right thing, given that the girl in question may have told her parents of the incident, but surely this is a bit much.

I would also appreciate any guidance on what a school is likely to 'do' with such a log and what effect it might have on my ds.

Many thanks in advance.

Schools don't tend to break the law in my county, LA's teach them a different version of the law and they follow it in faith.

I wonder how much discretion I have as a teacher. I mean, were I to go against the reporting procedures of my school, that would be very much held against me. Misconduct? And were my school to go against the guidance of the LEA? What would be the outcome for the school? And we have OFSTED too, and they are interested in this.

As I said, I wonder what academies are doing. I guess lots of us will find out soon...

Yes I see what you mean TFM. When you say my relationship with the school is poor, when it comes to the individuals it isn't.

However, the regulations, whether morally right or wrong, whether even legal in some instances, mean that the school can't act in the best interests of my ds. What is frustrating though, is the willingness of the school to accept without challenge, practises and protocols set by the LA that are dubious in morality and dubious in law.

swc you may well have a valid point about state education, but the discretion lies with individual teachers and in this instance, think they got it very very wrong. Isn't a teacher's purpose to educate rather than report? Of course age is a relevant factor, the same way that when my DS hit another boy at soft play yesterday, it wasn't reported as an assault.

Describing someone's skin as chocolate is not racist. There are make up foundations for dark skin described as 'cocoa.' My foundation is described as 'ivory.'

I know almost nothing about ASD, but was listening to a radio program yesterday morning on Radio 4 about it, and discussed how people with ASD are very honest and don't understand the social mechanisms and the concept of realizing a truth, but saying something else. For instance, not understanding that it's not kind to call someone 'fat' even though they may be exactly that.

Yes ilove That is likely to happen with ASD. I refuse to use ASD as an 'excuse' for my ds though as I want more than anything for him to be able to live as independently as possible in the real world and navigate his way around it, which means at some point, takling this 'truth' thing. I do want it to be addressed when he is ready.

However, he is 4 and his ASD gives him so many more serious problems at the moment than simply making a statement that might be considered upsetting to someone.

His main disability is a social communication disorder.

I thin it is quite common, for parents to teach children colors vis, yellow/banana, green/grass sky/blue
In fact at most of the nurserys Ive been to, have very similar colour posters.

Tell the school to research " RACIST"

The answer "racial intolerance"
I would be as angry as you are OP. There is no suggestion of racial intolerance in the comment, or in you DS thoughts

Sky blue eyes
Banana yellow hair
Are another lot of comments similar to you DS comment. No wrong there?

It's a complex, nuanced individual case - really hard to know just how the school should call this one, and what's the right way forward, isn't it?

Probably easier just to call all state teachers illiterate robots instead, eh?

OP

I am sure this will be resolved in the end to your own satisfaction. Your son quite clearly meant nothing racist by his remark.

It is hard for you and you are clearly very upset/concerned about your son being villified as a racist and indeed your own reputation too which is totally appropriate.

Do you have a social worker that might beable to intervene on your behalf? have you thought about setting up a meeting with the said child's parent at an appropriate time.

Write letters to the L.E.A, visit the C.A.B. Maybe even a solicitor if all above fails.

My son is is mixed race and if he came home and told me an SN child (my son is also SN) had said he was a chocolate face i would want to know who said it and upon meeting with the teacher and yourself i am sure i would totally understand and we'd be O.K.

Easy to say i know bt relax tonight and i think you will be O.K

Have you Googled to find out the possible official procedures you may have to follow in order to clear your son's name? xxx

I do feel it is redicolous tbh. In all honesty i would laugh at the teachers infront of you (if it was my child) as i can tell you are a decent person. I would probably tell them they are redicoous and how dare they make you and your son worry over sopmething so silly!

at the typos

If it is easier for you to cope with a situation in which I dislike the parents of SN kids, then you have it that way, love.

I think putting your ds asd aside surely most children of this age have very little concept or ability for racial intent. considering your sons asd surely this should be bench marked considering his individual language and social ilestones.

I doubt very much if this where said by a much younger child then it would not be recorded.

i dont belive this should even come under any legislation or guidliness in recording if managed and investigated adequatly. if the other mother raised a verbal or written complaint then this surely be recorded and investigated under complaints proccedure, no racist intent intended should be recorded and back to the mother, if she found this unsatisfactory then maybe the school may want to take further advice from ofsted.

if i were you op i would call ofsted and ask what they think with regards to where this falls with law and guidlines.

I doubt very much if this where said by a much younger child then it would not be recorded.

sorry not clear i ment i doubt it would be recorded

SOunds absurd. My (non ASD) 3 year old says 'chocolate face' when describing black people. She only likes dark skinned dolls and croons 'my chocolate face' to them with great affection. Her uncle is black and finds it hilarious. (Her big sister worried that it would be 'rude'.) She also says 'Hello fat old lady' with cheery friendliness. Embarassing for me but she's pretty wilful and any attempt to change the wording just makes it more appealing. Surely racism is "prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior" not a child using inventive description. Are they confused about what racism actually is?

my dd 5 who would not have the ability to use any race hate language or behaviour and does not have sen, often says poo face, spaghetti face, cheese face, and pretty much anything face that may pop into her head. im sure chocolate face would never be out of the realms of posability. i would be shocked if this would be delt with in a similar manner.

I would persue this with the school, lea and ofstead op untill you have a satisfactory explination or outcome.

The world has gone mad.

Of course your son was not being racist. The school, however, by logging it and not making a reasonable adjustment for his disability may well be guilty of disability discrimination. Stick that in writing to the chair of governors, request and apology and for the log of the incident to be deleted.

Next time the teachers or their assistants don't have time to change a book, help with buttons, look for a cardigan, remind them politely of what they do have time for. A little more time spent on holistic care and education and a little less on politically correct claptrap wouldn't go amiss in my opinion. Poor DS and poor you for having to put up with such utter nonsense.

Youare No we don't have a social worker or any support actually.

I'm fairly sure he didn't call anyone 'chocolate face' he just said it 'to' someone. He isn't emotionally literate enough to actually call someone that.

He also said to someone the day before 'nice face'. He's just using the skills we have been teaching him to notice different faces.

I don't know of course, but I very much doubt the girl and/or her parents would be bothered by such a remark. The school attracts a number of quite rough kids and I would be surprised if she hadn't heard a lot worse.

You know what though. I DID laugh when the teacher first told me. I thought she was telling me out of amusement and to warn me that this needs watching just in case anyone took offense. I didn't expect her to tell me that it had already been logged.

I don't know of course, but I very much doubt the girl and/or her parents would be bothered by such a remark. The school attracts a number of quite rough kids and I would be surprised if she hadn't heard a lot worse.

thats a bit misguided op to say such a thing. I would be sure to not say that to school or lea etc.

I wouldn't say it to the school. I just doubt that the 3yr old that he said it too even recognised it as a 'racial' issue. Not suggesting it might not have been upsetting for her, as much as 'tic tac face' or 'poo poo head' which I have heard other children actually CALL each other in that nursery.

ok i understand that. just thought the being rough part may have sounded a bit ironicaly prejudist