to think this should not be logged as a 'racist incident'?

[StarlightMcKenzie]

I'll try to give all the facts here so that it doesn't come out in drips but I'd appreciate any good quality advice how to handle this too.

My ds deliberately went up to a black girl at school and said 'chocolate face'.

My ds has ASD.

We have worked extremely hard with ds and the attributes of his ASD that affect him most are not behavioural, but social communication, reading emotions and facial expressions.

We have spent a couple of weeks getting ds to concentrate on people's faces and talk about the differences in them and how they are different.

We have been also working on the theme of 'looks like' or 'same as' i.e. yellow pen looks like a banana. Hand looks like a foot etc etc.

The school say they have to log the incident as a 'racial' incident, but my ds has no idea about races, and there was no racial intent, although I do not dispute that he meant what he said, or at the very least that the little girl had a face 'like' or 'same as' chocolate.

I am gutted to the core that my ds has his name in this 'log' and am really desperate for advice on what to do about it.

I do not for one second dispute that the teacher has to be seen to be doing the right thing, given that the girl in question may have told her parents of the incident, but surely this is a bit much.

I would also appreciate any guidance on what a school is likely to 'do' with such a log and what effect it might have on my ds.

Many thanks in advance.

It can only be logged as a racist incident if perceived as such by the person it was directed at or others there at the time. Was it? Did the (3yr old let's remember) say she felt it to be racist? Did the staff at the time who heard what was said (if they even did) consider it racist given their knowledge of the way the child (your child) perceives the world around him?

If the children were old enough to be understand the difference between a racist remark and a generally unkind remark then regardless of intent then I'd expect any school or organisation to note this as a racist incident, sad as that may be for those involved. However, this is not the situation and I'd say that somebody, not directly involved in the incident itself, and based upon 2nd or third hand information, has made the ludicrous decision to perceive this as a racist incident.

I'd question this.

You should also have been made aware of policy on the matter at the same time as being told about the logging of the incident.

hobb No-one has given me any policy. I don't know who saw the incident but tbh, I've not read his home-school book that might explain more than the teacher did. I should do, and will in a second but need a glass of wine first.

You should also have the right to appeal?? Taking it to the extreme, threaten Judicial Review!!

oh dear if the lea are being uncooperative already i feel for you. our ds will be leaving education soon but we have had to fight all the way for appropriate provision. we took them to tribunal twice, once at primary stage and then at secondary. i ended up leaving social work and working in education so i could help him get what he needed to reach his potential

LOL, I don't think I can go to Judicial Review for a scribble in a book, but I can go to the Governors.

my friend had a similar incident with her grandson [ who lives with her ] i got advise for her from my sister who teachs in a school where the pupils are predominatley asian she said at such a young age [ he was five] he would have no concept of racism and was just pointing out something that was different from himself which all children of all ages get advice about it staying on his report

Yes, go have wine...the nursery sounds up its own rear end to be honest.

When institutions adhere so bizarrely to policy like this it makes one question how much good sense is prevalent in such a place. Every good establishment has a healthy dose of pragmatism to go alongside respect for policy and procedure; and the families close to such establishments foster the kind of trust that is the foundation to a good start in education. Trust that genuine concerns are taken seriously but that mountains are not made out of molehills and the needs of all are taken into consideration.
Tosspots.

that was meant to read all children of all races do

If anything ( as the last poster says) it should have been the vehicle for a talk on how we are all different etc and how that should be embraced...

op- I work with children with ASD and very often the say things and make comments that could be mis understood. Its all part of the condition. There have been "racist" comments made but in the context of the ASD we would not log them as such. Instead they may be logged as a learning point ie we as teachers need to teach the child an alternative. It sounds like all the input re faces is working well and can be built upon as suitable and unsuitable phrases.
To be honest i was stunned when i read your son was only 4- on the account of the school discussing logging the incident and on the excellent progress he is making re faces.

Unfortunately schools are required by law to report racist incidents to the lea. I fully agree though that making this discrimination some how more unacceptable than any other form is wrong. All forms are unacceptable, it's possible the incident is logged by the lea rather than next to your sons name iyswim.

For sure log racist incidents, but be sensible in your interpretation.

Do you know what is done with the information that is logged? Is it purely logged to provide information about how many racist incidents there are, or will this stay on some kind of a record for your DS?

I know that the schools and nurseries are required by law to record these incidents, and they may well have done so in case the little girl told her parents about it. To cover their backs.

It would be a good opportunity for the nursery to do a project on racial diversity, perhaps you could suggest that.

It is logged as a measure of the nursery rather than your son. There will be a description of the school's action which might well include the information in the OP. It is just as much about the girl's experience as your son's action.

Mme I could suggest a racial diversity topic, but my ds doesn't even 'get' a topic on farm animals. It would certainly be a waste of time for him.

I get limited audience with the nursery (As I'm a trouble-maker that needs to be squashed according to the LA) so as much as I care about racism, I'd rather my ideas were more appropriate and direct to my ds' needs.

Good idea Mme though to find out what the log actually means.

TheFallen Yes, I can see that the girls feelings and perception is just as valid as my ds' intentions, but at what point does it become more important.

I mean did 'she' report it as racist or did the teachers just decide that it was.

And in that case, can't pretty much ANY action me interpreted as racist if someone wanted to find a relationship.

Making personal comments isn't acceptable and my ds has to learn not to do it, but if the damn nursery would give any of my suggestions a go, ds just might behave a bit better!

LOL Justa. You say that a lot to me!

Oh no, I wasn't being critical at all. It just struck me that I must come across as a right whinger!

What I'm saying is that the number of racist incidents is taken as a measure of the experience of the children who at the receiving end, more than a measure of the children delivering them. It isn't that this one child's feelings are more important than your DS's, although they are equally important. This isn't actually about individuals really. It's about the school and the envoronment it provides for its pupils.

Hmm, well if it is a judgement of the school surely they would 'rather' log something as ASD kid said something that could be perceived as hurtful, rather than 'racisit incident'.

But, I don't know much about nurseries or schools. I sincerely hope that the girl didn't get upset by the comment, but the scenario we have now is a very stressed and upset parent, an child with ASD who is going around saying 'chocolate face' to ALL children, a 'logged' incident and half an essay in ds' home school book telling me that I need to make sure he NEVER does this again (as if I can do anything about what happens in nursery, although god only knows I have desperately tried to get through to them).

It's not about what they'd rather do. I expect they would rather not log a racist incident themselves. But it isn't discretionary really.