to think this should not be logged as a 'racist incident'?

[StarlightMcKenzie]

I'll try to give all the facts here so that it doesn't come out in drips but I'd appreciate any good quality advice how to handle this too.

My ds deliberately went up to a black girl at school and said 'chocolate face'.

My ds has ASD.

We have worked extremely hard with ds and the attributes of his ASD that affect him most are not behavioural, but social communication, reading emotions and facial expressions.

We have spent a couple of weeks getting ds to concentrate on people's faces and talk about the differences in them and how they are different.

We have been also working on the theme of 'looks like' or 'same as' i.e. yellow pen looks like a banana. Hand looks like a foot etc etc.

The school say they have to log the incident as a 'racial' incident, but my ds has no idea about races, and there was no racial intent, although I do not dispute that he meant what he said, or at the very least that the little girl had a face 'like' or 'same as' chocolate.

I am gutted to the core that my ds has his name in this 'log' and am really desperate for advice on what to do about it.

I do not for one second dispute that the teacher has to be seen to be doing the right thing, given that the girl in question may have told her parents of the incident, but surely this is a bit much.

I would also appreciate any guidance on what a school is likely to 'do' with such a log and what effect it might have on my ds.

Many thanks in advance.

Christ, you get some twatty answers on here.

No it isn't racial - it is a statement of fact. "chocolate face" is no different to "blonde hair" ... no malice or insult was said or intended.

Things become 'ist' or 'ism's when people take offence. In this intance someone other than the recipient has percievced an offence was made.

Let me think ... do school log racial incients where black boys are larking and call each other 'nigga'? no they don't. Because it's street slang. And it's a damned site more offensive and derogatory than commenting on the bloody obvious.

If they told the child that he was being racist, then that would be wrong, of course. And as I xposted with you, reporting it to the OP is the way they did was also wrong. The logging and the dealing with it are different things. The former should not impact on the OP's DS, which has been my point all the way through.

star think you need to find out more about the process, namely, where will this be logged, has the girl's parents been informed, was she upset etc?

Could you write a letter to the girl and her parents explaining what your DS said in context? Maybe something along the lines that he is learning the difference/same as, and how his associations work giving examples. Don't think you should apologize, but rather explain.

If they haven't been informed and she wasn't upset and what happened is just being 'noted' then I would forget it.

Not sure why TFM is getting grief here.

She has merely explained that the school is required by law to record any incident that is deemed racist.

Of course the school should note that the child who made the remark has SN, but they do have to make a not of the comment. If only in case the little girl goes home and tells her parents, "StarlightDS said I have a chocolate face".

And the incident is not recorded against the child, if I have understood this correctly.

I haven't had a chance to read all the posts, apologies, I just wanted to post NOW otherwise it will be 19 pages and I'll still be on page 4.

I have a 3 and a half year old - so halfway between your son and the girl who you are posting of. No special needs.

But I would be astounded and appalled if my son had made a general observational remark about the appearance of a person or object and it was logged as a racial incident.

I haven't had a "race" discussion with my son yet. I would, but where we live is dissapointingly undiverse so it hasn't come up.

If it were to arise I suppose it might be possible to tell him not to make comments or draw attention to it in the same way that he might discuss something else like someone has new purple shoes.

Christ.

Is this something I should be pep-talking him about? I always think these things should come naturally...

No Katey, they aren't allowed to do that, but they have done it anyway and in my county schools are very strongly governed by the LA.

In fact Katey, I am able to evidence many instances where the LA have broken the law wrt my ds but the redress for parents is generally unaffordable, time consuming and in some instances not even possible.

This is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. What benefit could it possibly be to anybody to have this logged as a racist incident? How on earth can a 4 year old be racist? Are they worried that because he's used the phrase 'chocolate face' he may soon start reading Mein Kampf and leading the Youth BNP?

I'm sorry you are having to deal with this OP, I hope you can persuade them to either erase this from the record or at the very least add in a report detailing the work you have been doing with your DS and details of his ASD.

It is the Home Office Code of Practice I believe.

I want to make it clear that I do not approve of my son's comments as comments go and do believe that we need to work on this area when he is mature enough and has language skills enough for it to make a difference.

OP - I think there's been a really good suggestion upthread about asking his support worker to write a letter describing the work you have been doing on metaphors and similes with him and his relationship with her and how she feels he has progressed.

I think you could also write your own letter to 'go on record'. I have been reading TheFallenMadonna's posts with interest (do you work in this area TFM?) and read a few links (below) and it really does seem like the statutory duty the nursery has to report racial incidents is ridiculously inflexible, and on top of that advice and guidance from places like the NCB (National Children's Bureau) is encouraging schools to report on the basis that the more incidents reported, the more the school can be seen to be transparent, open, dealing with racism.

It might be helpful to explain the effect of their reaction on his behaviour and how it has exacerbated what was a 4 year old getting to grips with metaphors and similes (also impressed by this btw) into something 'naughty' and therefore attention-worthy (forgive me if that explanation is too simplistic for ASD - I do not know much about it - BUT I do think quite a few 4 year olds without ASD might have the same response). I think they also need to outline for you how they will be supporting him to understand appropriate and inappropriate metaphors and similes and assist with counteracting the effect of their reaction on his behaviour.

So for you having to deal with this when you are so obviously doing an excellent, but tough, job in supporting your DS.

-------------------
Schools have a statutory duty to report racist incidents to the LEA and provide a termly monitoring report as part of the recommendations of the Stephen Lawrence Inquiry Report.

www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6004257

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/6454857/Schools-report-40000-cases-of-racism-a-year.html

forums.nurseryworld.co.uk/showthread/f38e8ee8-543b-436e-b350-d0aa0817b366/?sOrder=threaded

It's horrible, but they do have to record it .

I work with children with ASD so I know that what your DS noticed and said was actually really good. I imagine you have worked really hard on this.

I had a 4 year old who got hurt in the playground. When asked who hurt him, he said 'That boy over there. The lovely chocolate coloured one' and that had to be recorded as a racial incident.

And same for the comment when discussing why the class missed Sunni, who'd just moved to India 'I miss Sunni because he always smelled of curry'

Both comments were just observations but all logged.

Starlight - I am genuinely not suggesting otherwise, nor am I suggesting that there was any intent to offend. I'm sorry if my attempts to explain have given you the impression otherwise. I actually started to try to reassure you that it was not a personal thing against your son. Clearly, that didn't go so well...

Starlight
My DS is 6yo and recently said to me, "It was the little brown boy over there", while pointing to the only black child in the school. Last year he pointed to the same child and said, "Him over there, with the blue jacket", as he simply hadn't noticed the difference.

I suppose I need to have a chat with him about race and the correct terminology, but have not got around to it yet.

Star - my ds has suspected ASD and he called a child a so-called racist name (he is a fair bit older than your ds). I did not feel in the circumstances it should be recorded as he was not aware of the context of the word and said it after he had been bullied/upset. It was logged with County and then included on HT report to Governors. Don't know what other action,if any,is taken. I think that HT could have used a bit of discretion with this.

Oh,and my ds is regularly called fat or gay and no action is taken with those children!

TFM I can see that. I'm not having a go at you. I'm grateful for your posts because they give some insight into what on earth seems to be driving the nursery and their methodology.

I can't help feeling as strongly as some of the other posters that haven't agreed with you though because it does seem genuinely unfair.

You may not be aware, but my ds has already been the target of unfairness and poor discretionary practise for all of his short academic career. The nursery would probably be okay, good even, if it wasn't for the coached cruelty they receive from the local authority.