to be very pissed off about this and wonder where it will lead?

[totallyfuckedoff]

Was invited to my sister's for Mothers Day, along with my mother and my 2DC.
Everything was lovely, food was lovely, mother got lots of lovely presents.

After the lovely lunch, just as everyone was relaxing watching tv chatting, I asked my eldest DC to take my mug into the kitchen since he was already going that way. He refused, so in a jokey way, I said 'Oooh, I'll have to think of a suitable punishment for when you get home.'
My niece (7yrs) suggested I could make DS do some cleaning.
DS visibly tensed at this, and explained to niece that he 'already does some cleaning and only because he has to, so your suggestion is so not funny.'
Niece then whispers very loudly that I should throw DS out in the cold for one night.
I said I didn't think DS would like this, at which point DS said to me 'You just try it, just try it once and see what happens!!'

I said 'That's enough, stop being silly DS, it's just a bit of banter.'

At this point, my nephew strides into the room, turns directly to me and says 'I'm sick of hearing you and DS arguing in my house every couple of months, and if you hadn't noticed, that lady in the garden is your MOTHER and if you also hadn't noticed, it is Mothers Day, so I suggest you either shut up right now or leave the house, because I don't want to hear your arguing anymore.'

I stood up and said I'd leave then.

DS refused to leave with me, so left him there.

I am speechless, shocked and don't know what to do next.

Perhaps I should mention that nephew is 16, DS is 19 and I am almost 40, and I have issue with a 16 year old speaking to me so aggressively and being humiliated in front of DS, and other younger nephews.

DS and I have a difficult relationship because DS contributes very little in the way of time/effort/financially towards our home, argues about being given any small jobs to do, and pulls a murderous face every single time he is asked to do anything. DS has very little respect for me or his sister, if any at all.

WWYD in this situation? AIBU to be pissed off at being spoken to this way by my nephew? And if IANBU, What can I do to prevent it happening again?
Starting to feel like no one has any respect for me.

Gorionine, Thank you for your post. I am afraid I cannot see where Fabbychic is coming from. I do not understand her sentiments at all. I would like to understand her sentiments though, since I think it can only be a good thing to see the same situation from different perspectives. That's one of the reasons I came on here in the first instance.

Amidst all the uncertainties here, two facts stand out:

1. your nephew and your son are both very rude.

1. you need to deal with it. Because at the moment you aren't.

There's no blame attached to you - these two boys aren't children, they're virtually full adults. That level of aggression and disrespect is not normal - suggest you talk to your brother re his son and have a firm word (maybe the first one ever?) with your DS.

Good luck.

I think I need to get my own house in order so to speak, and sort my problems out with DS as a priority, and use my energy to do what I can to resolve those issues between DS and myself. However, I also feel I need to address the situation yesterday with my nephew as well as with my DS.

I have no way of contacting my nephew unless it is via email. Maybe that is better anyway. I can think carefully about what I want to say that way.
I wonder what the posters on here think of me emailing my nephew to explain that I am disappointed that he spoke to me in the way he did, and that if he wants to discuss his issues in an adult fashion, then I am happy to listen to his thoughts/feelings, but to insist that he doesn't speak to me in that fashion again?

I am leaning towards thinking that if nephew is old enough to ask me to leave my house, then perhaps he is old enough to sort this out with me direct? Maybe my sister will not appreciate this though, she looks upon him as a child, and may prefer me to go through her IYSWIM.

Any suggestions?

I have no intention of being nasty or aggressive, just straight and inviting him to discuss his issues with me?

corygal, sorry x posted.

Fabbychick, the son is an adult and is sharing the house with Op, so of course he should share in the work that arises from two adults using the house together. Clean his own shit in the toilet? Of course he should. Mow the lawn? Why the hell not? He's being heavily subsidised by his mother, the least he could do is get off his lazy arse and do some physical work to help her out.
Obviously you are happy to be a doormat, but don't expect others to be the same.

Should have said old enough to ask me to leave his house

I would say don't email him, if you're going to be more assertive it needs to be done face to face. Next time you are there when an opportunity presents itself then talk to him or your sister.

your nephew sounds like a jumped up pompous little twat tbh,does he get that from his father? He probably thinks he can speak to you like shit cos your ds does.
I raised 3 ds's on my own and they would NEVER have spoken to me like that ever,if they took the piss i reminded them who they were by removal of the modem and sky card!
Do nothing for him unless he can tow the line a bit,tell him he has to leav if he cannot speak to you with some respect.You will be doing him a favour as not many women of his geberation will tolerate this nonsense.
As for the nephew i would not engage in anything other than small talk,if he gets into debate again,chuckle to yourself knowingly as you wlak away or change the subject.

Lots of young adults are like this re doing jobs , but your son has took it to the extremes . In fact it sounds like hes bullying you . Id make a list of rules , he either sticks to it or he goes , id give him a month , and mean it. Dont try to find him somewhere , he can stay with a freind cant he .

Did your sister hear your nephews snotty remarks to you last time ? If so , what did she say ? Your family sound pretty toxic to me , and in my own experience trying to assert yourself with people like that is futile , i think id be seeing a lot less of them , especially the nephew.

Dont email him , doing so would be an open invitation for him to engage with you on an adult level , hes a kid , i wouldnt give two shits what his thoughts are , and inviting him to discuss it gives him power which he will no doubt abuse .

I wouldnt simply avoid him and when you cant i would only enngage in small talk if you must.

TFO - you sound very unsure of yourself, which is fine, given that you're considering all the options kindly and sensibly, but don't weaken your resolve. I would talk to your sister about her son if I were you, probably easier for you/

Don't forget that you are the injured party here - catering to other people's feelings is a priority only to resolve your ill-treatment and to make sure it doesn't happen again.

It strikes me your relations may be about to get a wake-up call over their levels of rudeness and disrespect. You're in the right here, no matter what they may try and come up with.

Thankfully all teens are not like this. SO disrespectful!!! Your DS and DN.

By the time I was 21 I had a 4 year degree, had left home, had a home and a business of my own! My mum brought up 4 kids on her own (no state help or maintenance paid by exH). She worked very hard, and we had to all work together. Being a family is being part of a team. Having responsibilities from a younger age builds self confidence and self respect (and for those around you) and is GOOD.

The fact there is no dad in the picture now, would have hopefully made your son realise he needed to step up to the plate more... sadly this has not happened.

I am afraid you do need to go the tough love route with your son now, short term pain, long term gain. For you all.

Also disagree with Fabbychic. 19 is a young adult and he knows VERY well he is taking the p. He is a member of the household and he should contribute so.

btw,when my ex left,my ds's took over the garden and heavy jobs,they also picked up their baby sister from cm's and gave her tea and bathed her and put her to bed as i worked shifts,this was all after work,college or school,i was able to keep the family home because of it.They only paid 25 when they were working and had rooms like tips but they contributed to the running of the house and helped me massively because we are family.
I am staunchly proud of the young men they became because of it and they have excellent relationships too.Of course they should contribute to household chores there will be no other living circumstances in the future where they dont have to.

Re your nephew. He is only 16. I would phone your sister and have an open hearted chat with her, about how you are battling with your son and that you are taking measures to rectify the situation.

Then say how you don't like the way her son speaks to you etc. and could she please have a word with him herself? Or maybe you could come for coffee and have a chat with him and her about it? Apologise if you've made the atmosphere tense when you and DS are there, it wasn't meant, and you have been battling with DS, but are trying to rectify things.

They sound like a pair of spoilt, entitled little princes dickheads. Agree with another poster there is more behind this op. Seems to me that you are scapegoated by your family and this is moving onto the next generation.

Seriously though I would have laughed in your nephews face and told the little pip-squeak where to go. As for your ds, he needs sorting or turfing. He is on target to be a first class twat in any future relationships he may have, don't think it's all your fault though, your mum ably assisted and undermined you at every turn.

fabbychic you sound more worrying every time you post.

Your primary problem is your son.
Tbh focussing on the nephew is just avoiding the issue.

My eldest son is 17. If he heard anyone sneering at his sister the way your son did he would not let it go. But your nephew shouting at you rather than your obnoxious son was weak ass.
But then if your son spoke to my dd like that he would be out on his arse pretty bloody quickly.

Stop dialling around about how to email your nephew etc. Sort your son out.
Let your sister sort hers out.

And fwiw if a 16 year old shouted at me to leave the house I would not slope off. Your response was either sulky or beaten , I am not sure which. But neither are good.

Don't go on family visits until you have dealt with your son. And stop the ' banter' . It sounds like you use cover of social occasions to take snipes at your son because you won't deal with him openly.

I think it would be really good for all of you if he left home now.

If my son ever threatened me the way your threatened you, he would not be living here anymore.
You are not helping him, letting him think that arguing with 7 year olds and behaving like a twat is ok.

What Pagwatch said.

The nephew sounds like a precocious little shit, and I'd quite like to shove an EU directive up his arse, but he's not your primary concern.

I think you have to say to your son, "Right, I'm drawing a line in the sand. This is how it's going to be from now on if you want to live here. No discussion. You are an adult and will pull your weight. If you don't, you're welcome to go and live elsewhere."

Pagwatch is right (this needs to become the Mumsnet official tagline )

My mum had similar issues with my little brother (have posted shiteloads on here about it) But she would always choose to focus on something else instead of the pressing matter of brother being a little turd. Usually her brother's children not being very sociable, because it took the pressure off her to do something about her own child's behaviour.

That's not to say that I agree with your nephew's behaviour. FWIW, he sounds like a terrible shit.

Oh and FabbyChic, you are talking mince as usual.

Why shouldn't he mow the lawn or do any of the other jobs you listed? I used to pay my mum £10 a week when I was that age (tbf this was twelve years ago and I only had a saturday job as was studying full time) so to compensate I did all sorts. Cutting grass, helping re-decorate, fixing stuff, everyday household shite. Thankfully this meant then when I moved out, I wasn't a simpering little div who didn't know my arse from my elbow. TFO's son is NOT a child, he's an adult behaving like a child, because mummykins does everything for him.

Jesus Fabbychic, do you have doormat/slave printed on your forehead?

Living in a house means chores are shared - he is part of the family and everyone does their bit to help. If he wants it any other way he needs to pay market rent for a house share, plus bills and his own food and move out.

If the OP does jobs for him, then why should he not reciprocate?

My ds helps hang washing out irrespective of whose it is; this is not the 1950s, and men are perfectly capable of doing household chores and cooking. Just because they have a dick, doesn't mean they can't.

Thank you all for the messages of help and support.

I told DS when he moved back that he would have to help out in the house, so he knew from when he moved back that he would be expected to contribute, whether that be by giving his time, effort or housekeeping, preferably a little of each.

Before DS moved back, he did absolutely nothing, wouldn't even scrape his plate, and point blank refused to even make a cup of tea. He'd say he'd make one when he wanted one, and since he didn't want one, he wouldn't do it.

We have got to a point where DS gives me £25 a week (paid monthly because he gets paid monthly which is fine by me.), he also cooks regularly, drys up the pots after I have washed them, and puts them away, and will tidy/hoover the lounge/upstairs when I ask and mop the floors if asked. I also sometimes ask him to put the washing out/bring the washing in. He will make me a cup of tea when I ask, and will help me bring the shopping in from the car. DS does most of his own ironing mainly because I haven't got round to it. He has also gone from drinking every night to drinking just at the weekend.

I do feel he has improved in the amount he does, but his attitude towards doing it has not changed. He still resents it so much. He pulls a face, sighs, puffs and pants and rolls his eyes, and I don't know when this will change.
He doesn't actually refuse to do much, because as he likes to tell anyone who will listen, 'I have to do it or Mum will throw me out! That's the only reason I do any of it.'
I feel like I am pissing him off all the time by asking, and I want to get on with him, I want to have a good relationship with him, I don't want him to be in a mood all the time.
I also want him to learn some responsibility and some empathy for others. I think it is wrong that he can sit easily knowing someone else is doing it all for him.
He doesn't seem to think how other people feel.

The things DS point blank refuses to do are:
Rubbish/bins ~ He will scrape his plate under duress but will not take rubbish out/tie up bin bags.
Washing up ~ He will get very distressed because of the bits of food on the plates, and gets in a right state, upset over it. He only feels marginally better wearing rubber gloves, so we compromise and I wash the dishes, then he will dry and put away.
Cleaning toilet/bathroom ~ DS says it's unhygienic and other people's shit/piss have gone down the toilet as well as his own, and other people's skin cells might be in the bath/basin. I clean the bathroom myself and don't mind.

Everything else he will do, so long as he is asked, can pull a face, moan about it, be miserable about it and rant about it. (Not pleasant for me as you can imagine.) He isn't asked to do all of these things every week or even every month, just as and when tbh.

I feel that alot of my life with DS is a battle, a battle to make him understand that I am a person too, and I also have feelings. I have told DS not to speak to me disrespectfully and not to speak to children the way he did yesterday . DS claims he treats everyone the same, regardless of age. I am not sure what will happen next time we are all invited anywhere. DS's suggestion is that we don't all go together, which defeats the whole point of a family gathering.

I just wish he would think and appreciate I am compromising with him and do things with good grace. Why does he resent it so much?

As for my nephew, your suggestions are good, thank you.

In your position I would tell my sister what happened between you and her son. She might not be entirely aware of just how rude he was. I'd then let her deal with it while I concentrated on things at home. I think your sister should make him apologise personally. Before you are in a social situation with your nephew again, try to think of some things you can say to him, if he gets lippy. Be calm and polite, but let him know that his way of speaking is offensive and until he learns to converse in a courteous way you choose not to have discussions with him.

I hope you do manage to set out some rules for your son. It's important to mean what you say. Again, be calm, don't engage in an argument, just state what you want going forward and give him the choice to engage properly within the family or find somewhere else to live. I wouldn't worry about him moaning to others. You are right when you say it is nothing to do with anyone else and he shouldn't bad mouth you to family, but you know you will be doing the right thing and it's okay to tell people who interfere to stay out of your business.

I know this is really hard for you and I wish you luck x

Just seen your latest post. How does your son reason that it is okay for you to clean the bathroom after him, but not for him to clean it after you. He will struggle to live happily in a shared house.

Anyway, don't worry about him telling people that you will throw him out unless he pulls his weight. They are probably thinking 'good on you' for insisting. I know I would

OP your son sounds totally indulged and sadly not of an age where he is going to be able to change easily. Better that he moves out and cleans up his own messes to educate him in domesticity! Otherwise some poor unsuspecting woman will take on your mantle one day and she will be on here moaning about him as well!

I am slightly heartened by your list of DSs chores about the house, and glad that he will do SOME things, but as always, it is his attitude that is more worrying, he seems not to treat you kindly. Does he even know he is being unkind and selfish, or does he think the world revolves around him and everyone is his slave? Does he treat everyone like this, or reserve the fu*kwittery just for family?