AIBU to think WTF is going on?

[ScaredWorriedAndAngry]

We recently realised we may had been burgled my DH noticed weird notches and marks on our front door...so he called the police they came and confirmed that someone had definately been into our house and we suddenly realised why small but valuable items had started going missing over a period of about 5months ..3 phones a hand-bag, my husbands watch I brought him for our anniversary last year and probably other things we have not realised...things you might think you have misplaced or lost..anyway the police officer asked to look upstairs so my husband said ok...when she cam back down the stairs she said 'how many children did you say you had?' my DH answered 2 ..she then said well why is there just 1 bed/mattress upstairs?' my DH explained that we will be buying a futon for them and that we are just in the middle of things.

now for some back-ground...my DDs bless their cotton socks are home-wreckers...they had a lovely IKEA bed but they jumped all over it and smashed the slats beyond repair..they have also dug holes in the walls and pulled off their own room door when they made a 'swing' on the handle amongst other things..unfortunately my DH is not a DIY person a nor am I...we chucked out the bed bits and just had the made up mattress on the floor (which they think is bluddy marvellous and like a 'sleep-over'),we have a new bed that we brought originally when we brought the first bed..but decided not to put it up because they might end up breaking it again, we decided to buy a double futon so they can jump as much as they want till we have set up DD2's room...

We have lived in the house for quite a while but we are really struggling with decorating and many things have gone wrong with the property,mould, bolier broken, man half fitted the kitchen and ran off with the money..plus other personal stuff.. so yes it looks a bit of a state decoration wise and at the moment we just don't have the time money or energy to sort everything out and it's also very cluttered not dirty..just messy...and we also have alot of wine bottles in bags in the kitchen because I'm too lazy to walk round to the bottle bank often enough (more fool me)...so it looks a bit much when I look at it from someone elses perspective..maybe they think we are drunks or something?

Well after they left and I came home my DH mentioned what happened and said he thought she might say something..I said no way because our house is a bit messy and you explained about the matress etc etc...

2 weeks later the police return and we thought it was the discuss the break in..no..it turns out there we some concerns with our children and their living arrangements??, 2 officers from the youth crime reduction team are here?? they ask to come in the house is a bit wild because I'm doing washing..they said they have spoken to the school about us and our children and about the time off they have had etc...and last year my DDs caught quite a few colds ansd stomach bugs and the school policy is you must keep them off for at least 48 hrs so yes their attendance looks dodgy but not more so than other children..they asked us if there was food in the house??...we both work and have decent jobs but bills a mortgage and debts and I don't want to get into anymore debt..

so now a day later they are coming back again with another person...and I'm sure I saw them drive pass the house earlier...we asked for help from the police and now we feel like suspects for something we haven't done...am i overrating/paranoid?..is this normal practice?...am i in some kind of denial?..are we on a list?

I have been trying to hold this all in but I'm tearful/angry and worried and too ashamed to talk to anyone about whats happening...

sorry this is so long..

Tatty

Try and stay calm - although I know its hard. If you are seen to be co-operating they will view you more positively than if you are seen to be arguing/not listening to them. Do as much as you can. They have given you notice of the visit to see if anything will change.

I know you were going to get the bed in 2 weeks. But tbh I would get the bought bed out of the attic and assemble it if time or start to assemble it. You have to be seen to addressing the concerns they have raised.

Make sure you have food in the cupboard. This is a standard thing for SS to ask. Also do a list of other things and say when you are going to get them sorted - and then do this. For example with the kitchen, they won't be worried if there are kitchen units missing, but they will be worried if you don't have things to be able to prepare a meal e.g. working cooker, some worksurface or table. And if you don't either say how you will address it or ask for their help e.g. we know we need a cooker but can't afford it, is there any help you can give.

All people like SS who work with children are being told at the moment, after baby P, that it is better to take a child into care when not really needed than to let a child die. So please, do take this very seriously. Before baby P you would have been fine - now it will depend on the social worker who visits you.

I don't think that anything you have described is harming your childrens welfare tbh but there are a few things that COULD be indicators of violence or heavy drinking (holes in the walls/lots of wine bottles/house in a bit of a state etc) so they are probably just coming to check that nothing like that is going on.

I don't understand what you don't get. Police came to your house, your house is a mess, kids don't have a bed each, loads of empty wine bottles. They are not saying your children are neglected. They are just looking at the circumstances and acknowledging that it is a possibility that needs to be looked in to.
If the kids are fine, they will see that and not bother you again... If there is an issue, the will put the needs of the kids first and deal as appropriate.
Big brother or not, this is a typical situation where no agency can ever risk not taking action where a childs safety is at risk... They have to be over zealous yo ensure a baby P situation doesn't arise again... They are protecting the kids and tbh, covering their own backs.
I appreciate it wouldn't be nice to be in your shoes now but it does sound like you need to sort your house out... Especially as some of thos damage was done years ago!

stick to facts - you have been notified of concerns and future visit,do tidy up, sort broken beds,show moves towards less chaos

and as much as any wants to reassure you on mn,here aren't the people you need to demonstrate this by
clean up
adequate nutrition, nothing fancy but certainly a range and enough
a clear plan of how you will keep on top of things with approx dates and to do
increased school attendance and interest in school chat to their teacher

you need to sort this out pronto,having chaos and squalor isnt good for them or you

and it looks awful that you have wine empties but not adequate sleeping arrangements.money for alcohol but no bed sheets on bed

do discuss any other factors contributing to this situation
physical health?
social?
mental health?Anxieties?

if you had not been burgled would you have addressed any of this?or would it have continued?

They will not be bothered about ordinary mess. There concerns will be:

1. Only 1 children's bed. You say they are sharing and only on a temporary basis. But in families where children are being abused it is not uncommon for 1 child to be treated badly and others treated well. They will be concerned that second child will be sleeping somewhere in appropriate such as the bath, on the floor or even in parents bed. You obviously have a computer, why not use freecycle to get a second bed?

1. Lots of empty wine bottles, but parents say they can't afford a new bed. Concern will be whether you are very heavy drinkers and thus there is not enough money left over for you to provide the basics for your children.

1. Holes in wall. Concerns will be that this was done by an aggressive adult. Either you, your OH or a visitor. For an adult to be this aggressive, there will be concerns about whether there is DV or physical abuse of the children.

1. Food in cupboards. In families with severe neglect there is often no food in the house that could make a recognisable meal. Either literally nothing or a few odd things such as a jar of honey and cornflour. They are not looking for ultra healthy things. Just food that could make a recognisable meal e.g. fish finger, bread, baked beans, etc. If there is no food their concern will be that either the children are not being regularly fed or that they are regularly being fed on takeaways e.g. kebab for tea and leftovers for breakfast. Nobody cares about occasional takeaways e.g. once a week, but not as their usual food. Other concern will be if only food in house is sweets and crisps.

1. Lots of mess. I agree with the ex police officer that your house must be in a really bad mess for the police to notice and take action. So basics with clearing mess are:

a. Are the stairs free of clutter so that you can walk up and down safely. b. Are there clean clothes for the children in wardrobe/chest of drawers - not just all the clothes strewn around the floor in the house. c. Do the childrens beds have reasonably clean sheets and enough blankets/duvet. d. Is there a working cooker and some preparation surface for meals. e. Is there rubbish mixed in with mess on floor e.g. things that should be in a kitchen bin, discarded bits of rotten food, etc. f. Is the bath/shower clear of clutter and reasonably clean. If you have clothes/toys and other stuff stacked up in bath/shower they will be concerned that the children aren't being washed often enough. g. Is the toilet reasonably clean e.g. no poo on toilet seat. h. Is there human/animal poo on floor/furniture.

1. When your children are too ill to go to school you need to be telling the school about this first thing in the morning (you may already do). If you ring in later e.g. 10/11am, the concern will be that the children didn't make it to school because you have been heavily drinking and have only just woken up or you have a bad hangover.

1. They will be concerned if the parents are saying that their kids are boisterous enough to cause damage in the house, but the kids are well behaved at school. The concern will be whether the childrena re being properly supervised, or whether they are being left say for several days by themselves and cause damage out of boredom/lack of supervision.

The other thing to remember is that children have died because parents have lied to SS and SS and others such as police, have believed them. So SS and others are being taught to not just believe what parents tell them, but to look at the facts. So for example, the bed may have only been in the garden for 2 weeks, but they won't automatically believe this.

This is why you have to show SS that things are changing/improving. Please take this seriously. For furniture/beds/kitchen units
try freecycle on the net - where people locally give away unwanted things.

Sorry this is such a long post.

I can appreciate the problems with the kitchen and maybe having to save to complete the work, but the rest is just pure laziness and setting a terrible example to your DDs that this is how normal people live.

Working is no excuse for an untidy home (in fact mine is tidier because we work!), we are all tired when we get home from work, but the cooking, cleaning, tiding, washing, ironing, dog-waking, homework, activities, family time and bedtime stories still have to be done - You chose to have children, now you have had the wake up call to start taking some responsibility for your lifestyle and put it right.

Please start by getting them something decent to sleep on - Not a futon

Lesley gives good advice and a checklist which would really benefit you OP.

I dont think many people are judging you....I think the fact that you came here for advice shows you're FAR from unsuitable as a parent. You've done the right thing and 'm sure you'll all be fine.

Personally I think this may well be the kick up the backside you need OP.
You are a adult and a Mam you sound like a teenage lad living in a bedsit, get a grip for Gods sake.

The bairns deserve a clean comfortable house to live in and a bed each to lie in. If you want to live in a pigsty that your choice yes but what choice do the DCs have?

And just to say to other posters, the concern will not be about lack of decoration or being in middle of improvements e.g. with kitchen. A house that is in the middle of renovation/building work looks very different to a house that is messy enough to raise these kinds of concerns. Look at photos of the rooms in houses where children like baby P lived and you will see the immediate difference.

Also there are other concerns here such as the lack of bed and holes in the wall. SS will not get involved just because your house needs decorated or you are in the middle of doing up your house (unless obviously you have children living in an obviously unsafe house e.g. live wires dangling down).

lesley 33

I have just read your long posts in this thread and I am sitting here crying. I sometimes think I am too fussy a old bugger, my bairns certainly think I am but to think what some bairns have to endure in this country in this day and age with all the help and support avaliable shocks me to the core .

What the fuck is going on indeed.

lesley has given a very comprehensive list of the areas that police/SS look out for as indicators of problems in families.

I've worked for SS in the past and the one thing that used to shock me, but was surprisingly common in families with the more extreme problems, was the state of the childrens beds (not enough beds, mattresses with holes in and filling hanging out, filthy dirty mattresses/duvets with no sheets or duvet covers on).

That in itself is not/was not an indicator but combined with some other concerns like lesley has listed would set alarm bells ringing.

ScaredWorriedandAngry -if there are areas that you are struggling with ask for help from SS eg. family support could help with behaviour management or boundary setting if needed, or even help you (as a family) establish routines around keeping the house in good order

i think whilst you give great advice lesley, i would not refere so heavily to baby p in your posts and reference of possible knee jerk reactions by workers, as i think it could possibly scare op and lead her to lose perspective. children are not just taken into care by a social worker on whim, it is the courts call, based on very clear evidace of significant harm.

If the police came round my house at any point it would look as though a launderette had exploded upstairs and my dishwasher had exploded downstairs. Seriously, they wouldn't find the bed for dirty clothes!

You also neesd one of <a class="break-all" href="http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/856/856,1107099740,1/stock-photo-brussels-sprouts-tree-123706.jpg&imgrefurl=www.shutterstock.com/pic-123706/stock-photo-brussels-sprouts-tree.html&usg=__6DbhyWF8WYSfOOtT9OBYyRqekLg=&h=354&w=450&sz=46&hl=en&start=0&sig2=sPbBRgv5FkDG43TueC89IA&zoom=1&tbnid=l1Q743RFkPFJAM:&tbnh=146&tbnw=174&ei=B5KVTaHmO8qM4gadv6ylDA&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbrussels%2Bsprout%2Btree%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26biw%3D1076%26bih%3D438%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=374&vpy=79&dur=1107&hovh=199&hovw=253&tx=120&ty=77&oei=B5KVTaHmO8qM4gadv6ylDA&page=1&ndsp=12&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">these in a nice jug in the kitchen, make sure you get one of your children to point at it and say "more, more!" (but in a non-deprived kind of way)...

From your original post I would be questionning your judgement too. You seem to be making excuses for your children's behaviour and the state of the house rather than taking responsibility and realising that most people don't live like that. There's nothing wrong with a lived in house and a bit of mess but it sounds like so much more than that.

This might sound nasty but I'm going to be honest and say that I pulled a face and thought I'm glad that I don't live next door to you.

Why are you buying a futon for your children? They're only meant for sleeping on occasionally and the children should have a proper bed which can be picked up cheap enough on ebay if you're struggling financially.

Not having a bed is a biggy, isn't it?
£30 in IKEA. You don't have that? if they are no longer breaking it then it should do. Or freecycle or ebay.
No mattress made up on the carpet even?
When I had ds2 the first thing the HV asked was - do we have enough bed rooms and adequate sleeping arrangements? (I was tempted to say NO and see if she was offering me something.)

Good luck today op.I hope it goes well. Be honest with them.Have a clean up before hand but try not to worry too much. If your children will be there then I'm sure they are testament to what a good mother you are a good father your husband is.

Re: futon - Ikea actually do some very nice 'futons' that aren't like the traditional ones but are more comfy so I think sometimes
The word is used more widely nowadays than the traditional use. I had a lovely one which was more like a sofar bed.

Also if you haven't had a chance to make the new bed up, at least get it down from the loft so that they see you do intend to put it up and explain why you hadnt previously.

Good luck!

tomhardyismydh - fair point. I shouldn't have mentioned it. I guess I just wanted the OP to take the concerns seriously. I was not suggesting that the OP's family is being physically abusive - just wanted to outline what SS will look for and why so that she knows why some of these concerns will be taken seriously.

beesimo - its terrible some of the things children go through - btw this is not a reference to OP's family. My first job was working with severely disabled children. I was very shocked to find out that a sizeable minority were disabled because of physical abuse as babies or toddlers.

But we do live in a country that takes child protection seriously - not all countries do.

I think it is because somewhere safe and warm to sleep is right up there with enough food as far as being well looked after goes.

Really all a human needs is sleep and food and water. So if you are not providing somewhere suitable for one of those most basic needs it is a pretty big redflag.

OP, you need to get your shit together, not so you can pass 'inspection' but so that your kids have somewhere nice to live, it doesn't have to be posh or spotless or perfect, but it should be safe and as pleasant as possible.

Honestly? Holes in the wall, no door and one bed between two older children? It doesn't sound great.

SS honestly won't care if it is a futon or bed. As long as each child has something decent to sleep on with reasonably clean sheets and blankets/duvet. By decent I mean not a broken bed or a bed with no mattress/futon roll.

I actually don't think there's any excuse to live in a squalor like the OP has described. When I was a single parents and very very broke, I still made sure that the house was tidy and clean, rubbish/recycling was put outside in the bin, the cupboards and fridge had food in them, we had clean bedding on the beds and that my child attended pre-school regularly.

It isn't that hard or that time consuming to maintain a very basic level of cleanliness and tidiness. It sounds to me as though things have got very out of control for the OP and the assistance offered from social services is much needed.

I really don't think a futon for two children to share is appropriate as even a short term solution - they each need their own (proper) bed.

Why on earth if you've bought a proper bed isn't that being used - worrying about them breaking it doesn't wash, you need to make sure they don't break it.

Why would you buy a bed but not put it up, and then decide to buy a futon instead while leaving them to sleep on a mattress?

That's not right, but could probably be excused had the room not been missing a door or have holes in the walls.

It sounds very grim, I'm sorry. School have probably raised concerns too, hence the return visit a couple of weeks later. You really need to sort yourselves out.

I hope that today's visit is constructive and you get some help, it does sound like you need it.

HOpe you've had a better day...

OP are you/your dp depressed?

A lack of concern for personal/home hygeine is a sign of severe depression.

I really hope you get everything sorted, not just for this inspection but for all your long term well being.