To expect DN to stick up for DD if she's being bullied?

[chicaguapa]

This is a genuine question.

To rehash a thread I started last night, DD(9) started a new school last year after we relocated to a new area. Dsis has now moved to this area and her DD Y5 and DS Y2 have started at the same school as my DD Y4 and DS Y1.

I had reservations about this, as I have had issues with my DNiece since DN and DD were 2 years old, with DN's sly unkind behaviour towards my DD. DD is very happy in her new school and although DD has ASD tendancies and is quite eccentric with funny little ways, she has had no bother from any of the other children at the school, and I didn't want that to change.

DN has previous for not sticking up for DD when a year ago, I overheard her friend tell her that she thought my DD was weird and my DN's reaction was to whisper to the friend that I was DD's mum, ie 'shhhh!' because I was standing in the same room. I felt very upset about this and mentioned it to my Dsis who said she spoke with DN and DN's response was that she didn't really know what to do. I was at the time because I felt that Dsis could have taken the opportunity to clearly state what she was supposed to do, ie stand up for DD (or anyone else in that situation).

So now DN is at DD's school. DD came home yesterday and was really down. It turns out that DN's friends had been saying mean things to her yesterday at school. I mentioned this to my Dsis who again spoke with DN, who confirmed that her friends weren't very nice to DD but again she didn't know what to do as she's just started at the school and didn't want to ruin the friendships she's already made.

I just feel a bit sad that DD's safe little school life has been infiltrated by DN. My mum says DN is only 9 and that I'm expecting too much of her. So AIBU to expect DN to grow a pair and stick up for DD and/or AIBU to expect Dsis to teach DN that it's not ok to stand by mute while her friends pick on DD, her cousin (but anyone else for that matter)?

I appreciate it's hard when you don't know the DC involved and can only see the facts in black and white.

I expected DN to say 'that's my cousin you're talking about, so please don't be unkind.' Not to look at me with a sly look and whisper in the girl's ear.

I do have a downer on DN. She has been horrible to DD for last 7 years with sly bitchiness and I've seen DD go from being happy to downcast when DN has arrived at family functions. Maybe I'm over-reacting that by starting at DD's school, she has brought it into DD's happy school life and not just confined it to family get-togethers.

Tbh I've never really held DN in high regard as she has always been sly and bitchy

She's nine years old and you have always thought her sly and bitchy?

If she hasn't been told this before she's a lucky lucky girl to have you as her Aunt

Are you 100% sure you're not jealous that your DN is more popular than your DD?

Could that be the reason for your awful feelings towards your DN? She was sly and bitchy at the age of two seriously?

read your messages, you are saying a CHILD is sly and bitchy...pot and kettle come to mind. you are a nasty woman.

At the age of 2, DN used to go up to DD and cuddle her, whereby DD would start crying. Then DN was caught out as someone spotted that DN was pinching her at the same time, where she wouldn't be seen. It really hasn't stopped from there tbh. My parents said that she was getting better as she was growing up and they could also recognise that she had this side to her.

I think most of you would feel the same way and if it was one of your friend's DC behaving like that towards your DC, you would want to protect them. And certainly not accept bullying problems from them. I'm not sure how that it's family suddenly makes it ok?

I'm very confused here
You don't like your niece and the effect she has on you daughter but you expect them to interact at school?

I would suggest a mutually agreed 'exclusion zone' at school and family events . as it's obvious that they just don't like each other or get on.

They may be cousins but that doesn't mean they have to be friends

( and as the mother of 3 daughters am still aghast that you can call a 2 year old sly)

Iwas has the right idea IMO.
OP, my DD is slightly odd and has strange ways, but, I make sure she doesn't stand out. She certainly would not be wearing boys shoes. My DD is the same age as yours and doesn't necessarily always fit in with her peers, but please don't enable your DD to look out of the ordinary.
Rightly or wrongly, children do judge each other on what they wear. Don't add fuel to the fire.

the pinching is what i would expect hin your dn situation, a new baby comes into the family and all hell breaks loose for the existing only child in the family. they are suddenly not as much fun, not as cute, not a exciting as a new baby. so they do things to get attention.

you seem to have pigeon-holed your niece into a category labelled 'not very nice' when she was two. Nothing she's done seems unusual, or particularly nasty to me.

I can only go on your thread and what you've posted but it seems like sibling rivalry between you and your DS.

Sadly it's not uncommon for two sisters/friends to have same sex children so close in age and then the rivalry/jealousy begins and the kids get dragged in.

Really, I imagine now your poor DN is 9yrs old, she's under no illusions about how nasty you are with regards to her. Afterall your daughter's behaviour is always perfect towards your DN isn't it?

I can only conclude that if I was sent to a school where my 'eccentric' cousin...daughter of my nasty Aunt went, I would be none too pleased either and certainly wouldn't want to get involved when/if my friends had altercations with her.

After all, it's not like your DN is ever going to do anything right in your eyes is it? And I'm sure your DD never does any wrong

Your dn 'pinched' your daughter when she was two and that has coloured your opinion of her. I have six nieces and two daughters, they all have their own personalities, they have fallen out over the years. As an adult you have to move on from this and not bring up things that happened when they were two.

It is not your nieces fault that other children think your daughter is odd. You need to work with your daughter on this, alert the school to any actual bullying. Oh and be nicer to your niece!! She's just a little girl.

I wonder if your sister, the mother of the 'sly bitch', should tell her daughter to avoid the 'weird tomboy'.

Maybe she will have a word with your girl to tell her not to act so odd around her daughter and her friends as it embarrasses her.

You sound bitter and overly concerned with the relationship of two young girls. I had cousins at my school, I did not get on with one of them. I see him at funerals and weddings sometimes, we nod and move on.

Keep your beak out of their dynamic and it will save everyone in your family hurt feelings and bitterness for years.

I expect your DN was jealous of the new child in the family and this was badly managed by all concerned.

Toddlers pinch, it's not nice, but it is not sly.Call it non verbal communication and you and your family should have made DN feel more included at that time

As it is I expect she really knows how much you dislike her and feels awkward around you and finds it hard to act appropriately

I repeat, I don't expect them to interact at school. I just expect DN to stay away from DD if her friends are going to bully DD and DN doesn't feel she can stick up for her.

My DD is a lovely girl and all my family are always telling me that. I am not at all jealous about DN and any popularity. In fact DD is popular in her class and was voted onto the school council. I am very proud of her integrity and kindness.

DN, whilst she has some lovely qualities, for example she can be very friendly, she is sly and bitchy and I am not the only person in my family to say that. I appreciate that you don't know any of these people I'm talking about, and it may seem harsh. But she has always been like that and that's how she is.

I am going to stop reading this now OP. You are clearly (to me at least) blinded to any good your DN can do.
I adore my DD but am realistic enough to know that she isn't perfect and can be a little shitstirrer.

well in that case YANBU, if everyone else says she's sly and bitchy
good grief,

I did stick up for my younger cousin at primary school when she was being bullied.
Y'know what happened?The mother of the bully came up and bollocked me in front of my Aunt, (who was her friend) Aunt tutted at me, and Bullymother went in and told the teacher I had been bullying her daughter.
My Aunt and cousin stood by and never said a word.
She was on her own 2 feet from that day on.
I still see bullymother around and I still want to poke her with a pokey stick. (I'm 46 and very much old enough to know better, but the injustice stays)

Anyway....I'm confused by what you want from your dn. One minute you want her to stick up for dd, next minute you don't want her anywhere near.

oh, bad formatting there.

OP, your last post about how wonderful dd is, and how un-wonderful dn is says it all really.

And not in a good way.

You watch that halo though. You don't want it slipping.

I shan't list all the nasty things DN has done to DD over the years as that would probably be criticised too. I wll concur DN is probably jealous of DD and also that she doesn't understand her lack of interest in the same things as her. I'm sorry if I have offended anyone with my use of sly and bitchy towards DN.

DS and DNephew get on like brothers and it has always been clear that DD and DNiece do not have the same relationship. I have never persued a sisterly relationship between them. Dsis has felt that they are friends, which is why she wanted to put them in the same school. I expressed concerns about this to my mum who could see why I was concerned but also said that it would only be for 4 terms.

Re the boys shoes, DD's feet wouldn't fit any of the girls shoes in the shop and they also don't last 5 minutes as she plays football in them. So she has some that look like pumps. They really don't stand out as boys shoes as she wears trousers anyway. I'm as keen as anyone to strike the correct balance between letting her be herself and fit in at school.

Her eccentricity extends to things like hanging puffle keyrings off every hole in her school coat so she looks like a walking Christmas tree. Something which has caught on in her class and other children are now doing the same. She has no problem with anyone at school as she's lucky enough to have enough character to balance out her quirky nature and the other kids have all responded to this positively.

I'm not expecting DN to be DD's friend at all. I'm just not expecting her to 'pretend' to be DD's friend, come over and talk to DD in the playground, bring her friends with her and then stand by while they are spiteful to DD. I would like to think that if DN thought her friends were going to be mean to DD, that she would stay away from DD. This is what I'd like her to do.

I think that as well as tackling the bullying of individuals, it would be a good idea for the school to also look at talking to children about what they should do if they see other children being bullied. At our school, for example, the children are taught that they should speak out if they witness any bullying - whether or not they are friends or relatives of the bullied child.

I really don't like the way this thread has turned into calling Chicaguapa's dd a "weird tomboy" and the insinuation that it's understandable that she will be bullied because of what she wears. It's not only unkind but is an example of the blame-the-victim mentality that allows bullying to continue.

I think you mean your DN WAS jealous of DD....when your DN was 2yrs old.

I seriously doubt she's jealous of her now. If you think she is, you may well be deluded.

No-one has said it's understandable she will be bullied for what she wears, but it is sadly inevitable

Good on the OP's DD for sticking to her own style...but if other kids think she's weird because of it, that's not down to the DN to sort out.

I feel people are being a bit harsh on the OP here. All she really wants is for the DN to leave her DD alone. We have a lot of cousins in DS' school, and usually they pretty much ignore each other during school hours.

I would raise with the school that a group of girls have been mocking DD. Mention that DN was there, but not actually saying the mean things.

Ideally, also mention to your Sis that DN was there, (but not actively involved), as that might help to avoid a falling-out.

I was not calling her daughter a 'weird tomboy' I was pointing out how she might feel if the mother of the girl she calls a 'sly bitch' had simialr thoughts.

Bullying should be dealt with by the school. Kids should be left alone to form their own relationships.

Thank you coppertop. I think that this is unfortnutely a culture that's forming on mn, in a effort to be as unlike the other site as possible. What people seem to forget sometimes is that often a forum like this is the only place you can really articulate something that's harder to say in RL.

I think I am to conclude so far that it's ok for a school child to treat another in this way, even if they are cousins. That I am not allowed to counteract the calling of my DD by mentioning her good qualities, and that it's not acceptable to call another child who systematically behaves in an underhand way towards your own child, especially if it's a relative.