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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Please tell me I'm not an evil Mother?!

169 replies

loopylucy789 · 29/03/2011 10:43

I've just got back from a very stressful trip to a soft play place with my 4 year old daughter. (I was also looking after my 2 year old nephew)
She played nicely for a bit and then kept climbing up the slide and trying to slide down the steps on her bottom, which I told her not to do as she would knock the other children over who were trying to come up the steps. After 3 warnings about this, I told her she was going to have to come and sit on my lap if she couldn't use the slide properly. Well, she continued to do it again so I went and picked her up and sat down with her on my lap
MAJOR meltdown. She screamed and cried until the point where she was red in the face, people were staring and pointing at us and she was actually hurting me trying to wriggle off my lap, kicking her legs and trying to puch my hands away. SHe was shouting "you're hurting me!" (which I wasn't) I was so embarrassed but thought 'I'm not going to let her get away with this behaviour, they can continue to stare at me but she's not going back to play until she has calmed down and stopped being so silly.'
Well, after a good 15 minutes of this behaviour I became so embarrassed that I put her in my nephew's pushchair and took them both home. All the way back to the car she was shouting to people walking past "help me, help me"
I was absolutely mortified and was in tears in the car on the way home.
Was I being unreasonable?

OP posts:
ShowOfHands · 30/03/2011 12:52

Perfect? Nope, no idea what that means in the slightest. Am nodding vigourously at otcha.

DD is strong-willed, independent, feisty, stubborn, a slave to her age, has needs and moods and feelings that change dependent upon myriad things.

I think otcha is utterly right. I am parenting in a way that from the beginning is perceived in a certain light by some quarters. I co-slept, demand fed to natural term, never left dd to cry, had her in a sling when she was awake etc. I was told many things about dd. That she would be clingy, wilful, impossible to tame. All based upon misconceptions about how we parent.

What I challenged was the age-old 'what if they step out in front of a car or hit another child' adage like it's some kind of measure of how my parenting must fail against this rigid test. I am simply railing against this as a strange and arbitrary question. Because people seem to think that if I practise attachment parenting (and I don't, I don't follow any method I merely parent by instinct but yes attachment parenting does seem to be a similar thing to the natural path we've forged) then I don't have boundaries or never say no. It is because I have boundaries that largely the question of whether she'd run out into traffic or physically hurt another child is irrelevant.

DD explores her emotions in the same way others do. I don't spend my life distracting her away from moods or tantrums. In fact quite the opposite. I allow her her feelings, I try and give her appropriate ways to navigate her way through them. I probably do anticipate and guide her as these things happen but my life is not an ongoing attempt to avoid any behaviours. This thread has been a bit of a red herring because the distraction thing was suggested in response to a particular situation. I don't distract dd from natural, perfectly reasonable feelings. She is cross sometimes. She is sad. She is every human emotion that we are capable of having. There is no perfection and I don't pursue it.

I don't presume to judge anybody else's way of parenting. Nothing wrong with the frameworks other people work under barring wilful neglect or abuse. But sometimes people ask a question. Sometimes they worry about the way they do things and if they're 'working' and the beauty of MN is that other people have tried other ways that you may not have considered.

DD is not a compliant, biddable vision out of a Victorian novel. She is who she is and that's all I want her to be. I work hard in raising her. It's the most anxious, suffocating, difficult, exhausting time of my life and I get it wrong as often as right I'd wager. But I work hard every day. It's not a life of letting her do what she wants or never saying no. It's about a hundred times harder. I do parent. I work really bloody hard at it and when people misunderstand and think that our entire mother/daughter relationship is built upon me ignoring the world at large and its rules and dangers just to mollycoddle, pacify and pander to my dd, they misunderstand me and they insult how hard I work. As hard as every other parent I'm sure. But it's just that my way seems to be seen as the opposite of what I strive for. That I don't engage or teach dd about the world she's going to live in, that she inhabits a bubble. And it's unfair to her as well as me. I'm working towards the same end goal as the rest of you but have worked against people trying to trip me up endlessly with questions like 'aah but she can't be well behaved all the time'. Well, excuse my language but thank frick no she isn't. That's not the aim. But equally, the generalisations about how she must be ill behaved because she isn't put in time out or warned 3 times or given sticker charts are just based upon a nonsense.

daytoday · 30/03/2011 13:55

Well done! You are not evil.

It may have been embarrassing but you did the right thing. You kept to your threat, followed it through and then took them home. Next time she WILL know you will follow through.

notcitrus · 30/03/2011 14:26

Well done OP - you were consistent. Maybe some other attempt at distraction might have headed off the tantrum, but IME about 1/10 times tantrums happen anyway at these places.

BU was the woman last time I went to soft play whose child age 3-4 was hitting kids with things and she told him 'last chance - if you hit anyone, we're going home. (child runs to clobber a toddler). OK, that's it! We're going home. (to staff) Oh yes, a latte and slice of that cake, please!'

Child realises he's not going home so carries on hitting until other parents fence him away from all the other children with their chairs.

dontjumpplease · 30/03/2011 19:40

'what if she ran into the road' or 'what if she smacked somebody' well frankly, I don't know. For two reasons. Because if that happened I'd have to assess why it had happened and respond accordingly.
When? Before or after you call an ambulance SOH?
You cannot say that because you work so hard at being a patient parent who listens that just sometimes, she might do something irrational, or dangerous. Because she is STILL a child, with less experience of the world than you seem to give her credit for!
I'm sure the running in road example that you loathe was suggested because it must be registering in peoples experience.

cory · 30/03/2011 20:02

I was fairly heavily into playful parenting and distracting and all the rest of it. Even so, I found all tantrums could not be avoided; there were days when dd was more or less looking for something to have a tantrum about, and other days when she reacted unpredictably strongly and suddenly to something I could not have foreseen. I can't say I took those tantrums as any kind of failure of my parenting. I dealt with them as calmly as I could, did my best to keep dd out of other people's way and made sure she was not able to hurt anyone or damage property, but apart from that I accepted that this was a stage she needed to go through; some children do.

"Taught her better than that" does not allow for the fact that different children have different personalities. Ds was a sweet laidback little boy who did as he was told and never wanted to upset anyone. Dd was an extremely strongwilled child who could get so angry about being thwarted (even when it was explained to her that it was for her own sake) that she would quite deliberately try to hurt me or break something of mine. I did not teach ds anything I didn't teach dd. They were different people.

heliumballoons · 30/03/2011 20:02

I agree with hully and SofH but also agree with the op about how she dealt with it.

I call it pick my battles. For minor (usually boredom/ hunger/fatigue) stroppiness and subsequent defiantness its distraction all the way. DS has never been physical (well since about 18mths) towards me and I always did the 'gentle, that hurts'. I told him not to push etc others and if he did it again I did the whole attention to the other child - so again natural consequence - if you hurt people they won't want to play with you.

I have however seen the downside of the total distraction - I have seen it fail and now become almost a way of getting attention. EG kicking someone gets tickled feet, pulling there clothes gets turned upside down and swung. Yes the child gets distracted, yes the tantrum ends but then when calm and having sweets etc for calming as they've been asked for nicely. I do wonder though here if more attention was given first off it wouldn't be sort for through negative behaviour.

I have to admit when DS having a strop I ignore him totally and have talk and cuddles when he's ready. Sometimes its not worth trying to calm a situation when the child is not ready.

With the situation the OP described I would have tryed distraction but if it didn't work I would have followed through as she did.

OP YANB totally U

HappySeven · 31/03/2011 12:55

I'm not quite sure how either technique stops a child randomly running into the road.

BornToFolk · 31/03/2011 13:59

Me neither, HappySeven. I can't see any parent letting their child run into the road, whatever their parenting style. Hmm

ladymystikal · 31/03/2011 15:36

SOH and Hully- did you read any books which advised you about your style of parenting. I find my nearly 3yr old dd's tantrums really difficult to deal with..espec at church where i feel like im judged..one advice by a parent was-' i take #### out and smack him'. i dont want to resort to violence..my parents hit me with a belt(we're caribbean) and it traumtised me.

otchayaniye · 01/04/2011 10:45

ladymystikal, I can't speak for Hully or SOH and I'm not a follower of books per se (I follow an AP style, I guess, that's the shortest way to describe some of what I do, but I've never read a book on it and only know it's that from this forum really) but I really recommend:

How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk (Elaine Mazlish and someone else)
Playful Parenting (Larry Cohen)

Now I wouldn't say I exactly do unconditional parenting (yuk label too) but I read the Alfie Cohen book and found parts really hit home. Even if you think it's too far out it's still worth reading..

It's not so much how to deal with tantrums, because in one sense it's a bit late, and they have to run their course, to an extent. But both books talk about seeing the world from your child's eyes and how to communicate better.

Good luck. I reckon Church could have plenty of tutting people. Funny eh!

GoldenGreen · 01/04/2011 11:27

Ladymystikal, have you read Toddler Taming by Christopher Green? I found it helpful when ds was 2/3 - helps you realise that their behaviour is very normal and gives you some strategies to cope. I don't agree with everything in it but lots of it is very good.

Otherwise I second the suggestion of How To Talk - very good book.

Onetoomanycornettos · 01/04/2011 11:40

This is an interesting discussion, and one I have played out in my own mind, as I have used both playful/AP style parenting and, at one stage with my very tricky first, a no-nonsense jump in at first sign of trouble style where any minor misdemeanour was straight for time out. I've done both as I don't believe that the emotional maturity and needs of my children were the same at both times, and I simply didnt have time to spend hours of validating when I had a baby to look after and my two year old was eating safety pins just to get attention.

I don't personally think linking this to school/other contexts is a red herring. I have seen children who have been very listened to and validated to the point of indulgence struggle at school and with making friends, my colleague's son for one. They've had to take him away from the state school where neither the teachers or other children 'understand him' and have put him in a Steiner school (lovely in itself) where he can be free to be very emotional indeed. Actually, I think they've made him odd, and the centre of their world to an unpleasant degree which is, to me, too much for a little child. I have also seen my own children struggle a bit with not being the centre of attention and not have people listen carefully to what they say, letting children hold the conversational floor all the times has its perils as I have found out the hard way.

I don't dismiss such approaches, I use them all the time and actually find them more appropriate as my children get older, not less. Respect and negotiation does go a long way. But, just as in work, sometimes someone needs to be the decision-maker. If I chair a meeting, I let everyone have their say and look for the consensus, but then, if there's too opposing views, I make a decision. Full stop. I think that's the bit that is sometimes missing in playful/AP, sometimes I think it's ok for the parent to say 'you know what, I don't think this softplay time is working out, let's go' or 'no you can't change schools because your friend is going there'. Being a constant decision-maker as a small child must be quite hard work.

valiumredhead · 01/04/2011 11:50

GoldenGreen

It seems Dr Green doesn't agree with everything in his book either Grin

www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/child-experts-growing-pains/story-e6frf7l6-1111114426718

I found Toddler Taming useful too :)

Onetoomanycornettos · 01/04/2011 11:54

His book after Toddler Taming (for 5 upwards) is also very helpful and can be summed up very simply: do what works for you, but pick your battles!

monoid · 01/04/2011 12:41

I think that parenting styles depend very much on the child. It can be difficult to get a 4yo to worry about the safety of other children when she is having fun! I just wanted to add my tuppence worth. I find that when dd is at softplay, just trying to get her to listen to what I am saying is a task in itself. It's so noisy, and dd is really distracted and excited. So what I do, when she doesn't seem to be listening to instructions/consequences is take her to the toilets. And then I explain to her that if she can't play in a way that is safe for everyone, then we will be leaving and we won't be coming back again. As there are no distractions in the toilets, she is much more responsive to what I am saying to her. I have never yet had to leave softplay... I have dragged her out left a number of other places, but she seems to enjoy softplay too much to risk it.

hancan · 01/04/2011 21:53

Laughed when i read your post because today DH experienced exact same thing and lucky me - i was ill in bed and a safe 10 minute drive away from the whole drama!!!!

Brave DH took DS age 3 and DS age 15months...(braver than i!!!)

DH threatened to go straight home if he continued screaming (for sweets) and blow me down (!!!!!) DH actually did carry through with this consequence which is quite unusual but impressive none the less.

You are def not evil! Quite simply, you are mum and you are laying the boundaries and she is learning to respect you! Pat on the back! but agree with above...i may have made a quicker exit! : )

CheerfulYank · 01/04/2011 22:17

I think what you did was fine.

I definitely distract DS, talk to him about things, and really try to figure out why he is acting up when he is, because it isn't really like him. But if that doesn't work, he knows I mean what I say. I have said, pleasantly, "We do not run around shouting in the store. Those are the store rules. If you don't follow the store rules, I will take you to the car." He didn't listen. I took him to the car. Only had to do this once! :)

ladymystikal · 06/04/2011 08:31

sorry for late reply. thank you everyone for your suggestions Smile. I will look on amazon for those books.

springydaffs · 06/04/2011 10:21

I remember being agonisingly careful how I brought up my kids - the result is that they are emotionally spoilt adults who expect the entire world to understand their needs, expect everyone to display the same astonishing skills I did and find it hard to adjust when that isn't what they get the majority of the time. I would have been better off (for all concerned) keeping it simple eg no means no, do that and there'll be unpleasant consequences etc. You know, plain, simple boundaries - stop doing that on the slide or you'll have to come off, stop tantruming or we'll go home.

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