Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Please tell me I'm not an evil Mother?!

169 replies

loopylucy789 · 29/03/2011 10:43

I've just got back from a very stressful trip to a soft play place with my 4 year old daughter. (I was also looking after my 2 year old nephew)
She played nicely for a bit and then kept climbing up the slide and trying to slide down the steps on her bottom, which I told her not to do as she would knock the other children over who were trying to come up the steps. After 3 warnings about this, I told her she was going to have to come and sit on my lap if she couldn't use the slide properly. Well, she continued to do it again so I went and picked her up and sat down with her on my lap
MAJOR meltdown. She screamed and cried until the point where she was red in the face, people were staring and pointing at us and she was actually hurting me trying to wriggle off my lap, kicking her legs and trying to puch my hands away. SHe was shouting "you're hurting me!" (which I wasn't) I was so embarrassed but thought 'I'm not going to let her get away with this behaviour, they can continue to stare at me but she's not going back to play until she has calmed down and stopped being so silly.'
Well, after a good 15 minutes of this behaviour I became so embarrassed that I put her in my nephew's pushchair and took them both home. All the way back to the car she was shouting to people walking past "help me, help me"
I was absolutely mortified and was in tears in the car on the way home.
Was I being unreasonable?

OP posts:
thaigreencurry · 29/03/2011 16:37

The distraction technique is usually ineffective once they are past 4 years of age, in my experience anyway.

ShowOfHands · 29/03/2011 16:39

Depends what you want to teach a child. To conform to avoid a smack or to understand why conformity itself is sometimes appropriate and to make that decision because it's the right thing to do.

A child not behaving a certain way to avoid somebody much bigger than them hurting them is not necessarily a parenting success imo. And is why they know that smacking doesn't 'work'. It just teaches a child two things. One how to avoid a smack (looks like they've learnt a bigger lesson but they haven't) and that it's okay to physically hurt people.

ShowOfHands · 29/03/2011 16:40

Past the age of 4 years of age they've generally moved on from needing to be distracted.

QuickLookBusy · 29/03/2011 16:40

Are you sure Thai

It still works with my DH and he's 46

WildhoodChunder · 29/03/2011 16:44

My DD is 2 so I don't know if this would work on a 4 year old but we were at soft play today and she wanted to 'slide' on a climbing bit...

Me: DD, I don't think that's a very good idea, why don't you come over here instead?
DD: Go down here
Me: But it's not very safe.
DD: Down mummy! (she's starting to get cross - tantrum potential but not yet arrived)

Me: You want to go down something? (acknowledge what she wants so she knows she's been understood/feels listened to) This bit isn't for going down, it's for going up. (explain why she can't do what she wants). How about the slide over here? That's good for going down? (suggest alternative - a compromise which fits what she's wanting to do as far as possible but also meets my requirements) That looks really fun! ( enthusiastic voice) Is it a fast slide? I bet it is a fast slide? Shall we go see? Those kids look like they're having fun don't they? Come on, let's go...

That works for me, at the moment.

mazfah · 29/03/2011 16:50

Thank you for this thread, it's brilliant. Re-enforcing how I'd ideally like to parent when DS gets to that age. Some wise parents here, you do a lot for other parents.

[Causually ignoring the suggestion of violence]

thaigreencurry · 29/03/2011 16:52

But they all have off days don't they SOH, surely? Even I have days where I'm a miserable old wrench and snap at dh or whoever and then have to apologise for it.

Ds is 8 and usually very well behaved but this week he is a nightmare. Its because he is tired, his schedule was too busy last week and he is counting down to the Easter holidays. I've asked him whats wrong and he said I make him angry because I make him walk everywhere and he won't cheer up until I get a car. I'm ignoring most of his behaviour because its down to over-tiredness but on the way home from school today, he was such a pain he kept kicking stones that were nearly hitting cars, I told him to stop and told him that he was in danger of damaging the cars but he continued to do it. I then told him that if he didn't stop I would deduct a pound from his pocket money and he stopped. I rarely need to make that threat because he is a well behaved child but today he was tired and not listening to reason so I had to make a threat. I don't have a problem with that. Life doesn't change as you get older either, employees are subject to disciplinary action if their behaviour does not improve.

MrsH75 · 29/03/2011 17:13

The distraction technique is usually ineffective once they are past 4 years of age, in my experience anyway.

Yep. And quite often doesn't work when they are two.

ragged · 29/03/2011 17:24

I don't think you did any thing unreasonable, OP.
They are irrational little devils.
She just sounds very over-excited to me, nothing worse.
If you could summon the energy, and it takes a lot of energy to have the presence of mind to to this, you could try (and this can be quite difficult to get a child to play along) to engage her in a discussion of why you were so concerned about her actions, and what does she think would be a better solution? (ie, collaborative problem solving). I am just repeating what WildhoodChunder said, I think. I only suggest that as a future tactic that might be less upsetting for both of you, not as a criticism of what you actually did. I have often had less than sterling skills in handling these situations myself.

HappySeven · 29/03/2011 18:22

I don't think it's ineffective after 4. I've often used it on colleagues. Grin

RunAwayWife · 29/03/2011 18:39

No you were not unreasonable, she has to learn to do as she is told and at 4 should be able to do so without throwing a tantrum

Goodynuff · 29/03/2011 18:47

OP, I don't think you did anything wrong, in fact I think you were quite generous to allow three chances. In our house it is one warning only.

theresalwaysaway · 29/03/2011 18:57

What if the child stepped off the kerb onto a busy road? What distraction do you offer them as a car is bearing down!
Or do you physically stop them?
Or hold a hand up to the car to get it to stop while rationally explaining to the little person that it's not a good idea.
Please assume that road safety issues have always been discussed since birth! Hmm

ShowOfHands · 29/03/2011 19:14

theresalwaysaway, if you read the thread I said earlier that a child running into a road is different.

I'm not talking about a method of discipline/punishment, I'm talking about raising a child every minute of every day. DD has never stepped out in a road as before she was of an age to understand roads she would never have had the opportunity and now she's old enough to understand the dangers and how to cross a road safely.

Why is it always running into a road on these threads? I've never seen swathes of children running into roads. If a child of mine ran into the road I'd run right bloody after her. I'd like to think it's not something she'd do wittingly.

MilaMae · 29/03/2011 19:20

I think you did well.3 warnings is more than enough so time out.Still not doing as she's told so home she went.You followed through.It's horrible but I doubt she'll do it again. Coaxing,cajoling is ineffective.Constantly threatening but not following through is ineffective.No I think you did good Smile

ShowOfHands · 29/03/2011 19:21

Oh look I may as well go the whole hog into sanctimonious tit.

Whenever I try and explain how I parent somebody always says 'what if she ran into the road' or 'what if she smacked somebody' well frankly, I don't know. For two reasons. Because if that happened I'd have to assess why it had happened and respond accordingly. I understand her. She doesn't do strange things out of the blue and if she did, I'd respond instinctively which is all I've ever done to her.

And- here's the sanctimonious bit -she doesn't behave like that. She does not smack or or run into roads or steal cars for kicks. I may be lucky but you know what, I've taught her better than that.

Hullygully · 29/03/2011 19:30

My child runs into the road every day. I box her ears and tan her hide.

tinierclanger · 29/03/2011 19:33

I'm in the Hully/SOH/sanctimonious tit camp on the whole. Although I'm afraid my 'method of distraction' in this instance would be to suggest getting a cake. Blush

Not a time out fan certainly.

QuickLookBusy · 29/03/2011 19:40

Show I totally agreee with you.

I was going to post earlier that if my DD was having a tantrum or being "naughty" the first thing I would do is ask "what is wrong with her?" It wouldn't be a telling off or a warning, because my children don't behave like that.

And my DDs are now 20 and 17, both well rounded, hard working, lovely girls, so I don't think anyone can say they will turn into spoilt brats. In fact people have been telling me since DD1 was about 2 months old.."she'll grow up a spoilt brat" when I didn't ever leave her to cry/always distracted her from trouble/never smacked her.

I feel a little santimonious too as both DDs have turned out so lovely. You don't need to have battles with your little ones, you really don't.

Camerondiazepam · 29/03/2011 19:52

In my experience distraction and proper engagement do work better but the fact is that for me, I have to be absolutely on top of my game to achieve that - not tired, not thinking about work, not worrying about house stuff or whatever - for me it's about making all this stuff work in my favour so I can concentrate fully on my children, where they are in the strop cycle, what's going to get us all out of it in one piece. If I'm tired or stressed, Shouty Mummy makes an unwelcome return. It doesn't even work, it's just the default setting. I have to work at the other one!

Right, I'm off to bed now...

thaigreencurry · 30/03/2011 10:37

SOH, I don't believe your dd is always perfectly behaved. We are all human beings with flaws it is impossible to be perfect all of the time. I think my ds is very well behaved most of the time but we have got where we are now through love, patience, luck, reasoning and good old fashioned discipline. I have used threats (not physical threats) when reasoning doesn't work and I won't apologise for that.

I can remember being at soft play years ago when our kids were about 4 and one of my friends was at the end of her tether because her 4 year old dd was going through a difficult phase. One of my other friends said rather smugly "Oh we don't have any problems with Emily she never misbehaves". My friend was fond of attachment parenting although I don't think she gave it a label and she strongly believed that you should never say "no" to a child. However she was blind to the fact that her dd was sometimes naughty. That day she had a tantrum because she wanted to change her food order after it had already arrived, my friend couldn't understand why the cafe staff were reluctant to do so, she had pushed her little sister over when she wouldn't get out of the way and she had asked ds to throw a chip at some people on another table.

Firm discipline and reasoning can run alongside each other you know. Its always worked quite well for us.

Morloth · 30/03/2011 11:03

Sounds fine to me, exactly what I would have done.

You tried the 'soft' option of a time out but staying at the softplay, she kept it up so you called time.

Doesn't matter that she isn't happy about it, tough shit, perhaps she will remember that next time she doesn't do as she is told.

Tantrums happen, no point getting upset about it.

notyummy · 30/03/2011 11:13

Sounds fine to me. I would do the explaining and distraction thing, but if the behaviour continued then there would be consequences (explained) and those consequences would then be en-acted. (Said consequences would not be a smack.)

Everyone has different methods - and if it works and what you get at the end is a happy child who understands that there are rules in a variety of settings and they usually need to be followed, then that is the main thing. Both DH and I are from the 'we are the parents, we will explain why - but you WILL do as you are told' school of parenting. If that means we have battles with DD, then so be it. I love her, but my job is to be her mother - and then her friend. In that order.

otchayaniye · 30/03/2011 11:19

It?s interesting to ask what ?be perfect? means. Be well-behaved, as you see it? Be quiet? Obey orders? Be convenient?

You see, I don?t see a tantrum as bad behaviour. The child isn?t deliberately setting out to annoy you or to disobey you or to enrage you. They are discombobulating, I agree, and they can embarrass us (which usually brings out the bad parent in us). But they are symptoms of something else. A child finding a surge of emotions difficult to handle. The unfairness of an arbitrary sanction imposed on them. Even a past upset they haven?t figured out how to cope with, which just comes. Think of how upset you can get when your partner says something that hurts you, but in and of itself isn?t that big a deal. It can ignite an old un-dealt-with hurt and your emotions far eclipse the level of the small slight just dished out. We adults are no more irrational than a 2-year old.

?Spoilt child?
?Irrational little devils?
?Rod for your back?
?They have to learn ? (I don?t dispute that they do, after all discipline simply means ?learning?, it doesn?t mean ?punishment?. I do dispute that they learn it well by admonishment, and better by modelling, discussing etc)
?They have to learn boundaries? (again agree in principle, but think the issue is much more subtle than we like to think)

Sometimes I think we haven?t come far from the Victorian idea of childhood.

I think much depends on whether you view children and their less desirable behaviour as something to be managed, combated or tamed. If you do, then good old fashioned behaviourism will be your cup of tea.

I don?t think this way, I think leadership and mentoring is consensual and not best achieved in a two-way process. This is the case in adult life. The best boss does not bark orders and then sanction you. The best boss seeks consensus, mentors, uses emotional intelligence and models appropriate behaviour.

I don?t think SOH was saying her daughter was perfect, but that she?s in a place where. Let?s face it, perceived liberal parenting invites quite a backlash. I?ve been told my daughter will not be able to effectively learn, be ?one of those children other children avoid like the plague? etc. So I guess SOH is simply saying, no, on the contrary, her daughter has learned (and is still learning) appropriate behaviour from modelling and discussion and not from a crude behaviourist approach.

I really, really recommend Playful Parenting by Larry Cohen (he is a bona fide child psych) as a read, even if you recoil at the idea of what you see as permissive parenting. It has some good passages on what it?s like to see parenting through a child?s eyes.

Anyway, I realise I may sound like a sanctimonious tit. But on the contrary, I feel deeply humbled by having a child. All my past certainties (I was going to be a firm, but fair disciplinarian), arrogance that I knew everything has been bulldozed and as I fumble my way through toddlerhood I am learning, discussing and thinking about this constantly. I make mistakes, ones I know about, and ones I don?t know about. Smug and hubristic, I am not.

Oh, and my daughter is delightful. Strong willed certainly, querulous at times but endlessly fascinating (to us at least!) and a joy pretty much all of the time. How much of this is down to our parenting? I?ll never ever know. Probably less than I?d like to think though.

notyummy · 30/03/2011 11:37

Agree with your points about effective adult bosses - however it would be interesting to know how many of them were brought up using the wholly 'discuss and empathise' technique.

I have told that I am an great boss and like to think I use the approaches you outlined for effective adult bosses (so modest!!)but I was brought up using fairly similar techniques that I am now using with DD i.e 'I am prepared to discuss things with you, and explain WHY I will not let you do x or y - but ultimately I AM in charge.'