Please tell me I'm not an evil Mother?!

[loopylucy789]

I've just got back from a very stressful trip to a soft play place with my 4 year old daughter. (I was also looking after my 2 year old nephew)
She played nicely for a bit and then kept climbing up the slide and trying to slide down the steps on her bottom, which I told her not to do as she would knock the other children over who were trying to come up the steps. After 3 warnings about this, I told her she was going to have to come and sit on my lap if she couldn't use the slide properly. Well, she continued to do it again so I went and picked her up and sat down with her on my lap
MAJOR meltdown. She screamed and cried until the point where she was red in the face, people were staring and pointing at us and she was actually hurting me trying to wriggle off my lap, kicking her legs and trying to puch my hands away. SHe was shouting "you're hurting me!" (which I wasn't) I was so embarrassed but thought 'I'm not going to let her get away with this behaviour, they can continue to stare at me but she's not going back to play until she has calmed down and stopped being so silly.'
Well, after a good 15 minutes of this behaviour I became so embarrassed that I put her in my nephew's pushchair and took them both home. All the way back to the car she was shouting to people walking past "help me, help me"
I was absolutely mortified and was in tears in the car on the way home.
Was I being unreasonable?

As far as school is concerned, my two have done splendidly. Dd is Head Girl!! So something worked.

I have to say my mother did exactly what Hully's suggesting and we did get the message and learnt not to do certain things (I didn't even go through a rebellious stage although I think my siblings did).

When I had my DS she suggested doing the same and never using "don't" but rather "we don't" which sounds odd but is a lot less confrontational.

I think a mixture of the two can work especially if you've gone past the point of distraction.

Depends whether you believe a child is being disobedient too cornettos. I don't think any parent expects their teachers to use the same methods as them. They're not parenting, they're teaching. And children have an amazing capacity to understand the different roles people have in their lives. DD goes to preschool. She largely does exactly as she is asked because that is her role within preschool. At home, she is a member of a family and actually is treated in the same way as everybody else. If dh is having a bad day I don't warn him out of it as he's banging bits of wood about in the shed. I talk to him. I suggest we go for a walk or have a cup of tea. I treat dd with the same attitude I suppose but with a bit more jolly hockysticks and buoying up as she's still new to the world.

I think the most ap lentil-weavery parents have rules. DD is not allowed to stick her hand in the log burner for example. Or put the cat in there. Or clean daddy's car with rocks. But I taught her these things. And she doesn't do them. But she does behave like a 3yr old and it's up to me to guide her through her childhood by giving her the tools to respond and make decisions appropriate to the world she lives in. It's just nice to do it without the battles I think.

I think you did just fine. Just wanted to add that I sometimes watch parents with tantrumming toddlers to get tips for my own dd who is not yet 2. Im sure if you had talked to those watched they were all silently applauding you not getting ready to call ss

Hully, I just laughed out loud at you undressing your 12yr old.

My 10yr old niece thinks I'm desperately sad. We go out for a bike ride and I do wheelies and stand up in the seat shouting 'wheeeeee'. She mooches along sullenly and rolls her eyes. I suggest 'a race to the park' and she accuses me of being 'uncool'. I asked why her bike has no gears the other day and she accused me of being 'old'. Sheesh.

Well I think it'll help to have a more disciplined environment like school to reinforce your discipline.

You may well find when she starts, she calms right down. I don't think she'll go far wrong from the sound of it. You sound like a very sensible parent

I can imagine you running out of the school gates, punching the air in September

ShowOfHands I do like your attitute. When mine reaches 3 I will remember it.

YANBU. Such moments are tough and you took responsibility and did the best you could. You're getting alot of parenting advice - could be useful - but maybe this is just a one off so don't take it too much to heart. If she starts doing this every day, then maybe you should change something.
Otherwise, have a forgive yourself and her.

Model parenting in MHO too :)

Its too easy to give in in situations like that, but you didn't & that took some guts, so give yourself a big pat on the back - I just wish there were more parents like you, perhaps Schools wouldn't have such a hard time dealing with some Kids who just sadly haven't been taught how to behave & follow rules.

I've had similar situations with my own DD when she was young, she was a very bright Kid who knew exactly what & when to act up for best effect, she was also VERY defiant & VERY feisty - I'm secretly proud of her for that trait & years down the line can see its stood her in good stead on quite a few occasions -

BUT still knew she needed bringing into line or I was in for a very very rough ride, like you I wouldn't of given in a situation like that & as a result DD respects adults & knows how to behave & we are constantly complimented on how well mannered, kind, thoughtful etc that she is, she's loved at School & is a model pupil, who gets really annoyed at the way some of her class mates behave, lots of her friends do to & trust me, SN aside, for the most part its pretty easy to spot the kids who have been brought up in the way you are now doing with your DD

DD very much still has her own - very strong mind - is still very feisty :) but has been taught how to behave, which surely is 1 of our most important rolls as parents

& for those who think this sort of parenting causes relationship problems with Kids - trust me it doesn't if anything they thank us for it, as it is security to them to know there are boundaries,

DD has many times said that though we make her cross at times, she's really glad she has us & we don't let her do everything she wants to & tell her off if shes rude etc, she says she understands this when she looks at some of the more out of control kids at School & how hard it is for her Teachers & how she gets fed up with them for disrupting her lessons - so where as less strict parents might THINK they are creating a better relationship with their Kids - I doubt very much that they are & if my experience with DD is anything to go by, they do their poor DCs no favours at all, as it will NOT make them popular at School :(

I feel for you loopy as I have felt as you are describing after having to leave places with my ds (2.6) and constantly worry if I'm doing the right thing.
In my ideal world, my 'parenting' would be like hully and sof describes, and it has worked to a point. My (very strongwilled) ds has been going through the 'No' phase which I've been able to turn into a bit of fun by saying silly things back which has been diffusing his grumpiness. I also get a lot of 'Go away Mummy' which I'm now just totally ignoring as when I was pointing out that wasn't really very kind, he would just say it again and louder.

I just wonder how that style of parenting works in practise when I'm standing giving my ds a cuddle, and he is stroking my face, when all of a sudden he will slap me hard with both hands or pull my hair. I cuddle ds with both arms so I can't move his hands from my face so say no and put him down, this then results in a major tantrum. Would you say it is appropriate then to distract? Surely he needs to understand that what he has done is wrong?

I hang my head in shame when I hear about how parenting shouldn't be about power struggles but that is what life with my toddler feels like sometimes.

You're misunderstanding us I think rockinhippy. Not doing timeout and warnings does not mean no boundaries and tearaway children. If you re-read you'll see that Hully's children have excelled at school. DD is a bright, kind, helpful child who is excelling in an education setting. Parents evening last night and I am ridiculously proud of how she applies herself to it. She is a likeable, well-mannered, tenacious and brilliant person who I am proud of. I was raised the same way as we raise her and I was similarly capable at school and wasn't one of the tearaway children to which you refer.

It isn't about 'model parenting'. It's about doing what's right for you. If I suddenly started sticking dd arbitrarily in time out from a lifetime of listening to her and responding to what's actually happening not what I think might be happening she'd be a very unhappy little girl who wouldn't settle into a school setting because her parents had failed to understand her.

MIL works in childhood mental health services and the damaging course of action is responding inappropriately to a child. Sometimes that is not imposing any kind of framework/boundary. Sometimes that's imposing an arbitrary one. There often isn't a right/wrong but a right/wrong for that child.

Nobody on this thread has said don't teach a child appropriate behaviour. Nobody said allow them to continue unchecked. But some people did suggest if you're upset, feeling 'evil' and asking for advice, then perhaps there might be other ways. Other ways that work just fine.

I think ignoring would be an option there, happy. As in putting him down as soon as he does it, walking away and ignore the resulting tantrum. It's possibly the hardest thing to do but can be quite effective. Hully and others may have better suggestions.

Oh happypotter I don't know. Maybe start a thread? I think you can reassure yourself that you're trying. And that's 95% of it and means you're a good Mum. Because you care. It won't always work, whatever you do. Children do test boundaries and that's how they learn. DD wasn't/isn't a smacker so I can't say how that works. I do think it's normal though. They have impulses and the curiosity/lack of experience to follow through with them (like when you think about jumping off a cliff or shutting your eyes while driving just to see. You don't do it because the civilised and nurtured part of you knows not to. A 2yr old would have no such impulse control). At 2.6 though dd was very much capable of discussion, understanding and understood completely if something was wrong/sad/hurtful. And would worry about the feelings of others. I think you can nurture that through lots of mediums. Talking, stories, demonstrating, play etc.

I must point out that I am probably very, very, very lucky. I do take some credit for my dd's behaviour and I work hard to enjoy her. But she is her own personality. She does not and has never tantrummed or lashed out. She is kind and thoughtful and bright. I cannot pretend to know how much of this is us and how much is her.

Doesn't mean that she isn't feisty or strong-willed btw. She just channels it differently.

happypotter - I think you should behave authentically, show that you are hurt physically (cru if at all poss!) and that you are hurt emotionally: Ow that hurt Mummy, it isn't nice to hurt Mummy. They need to see the authentic consequences of their actions, which is very different to being punished for them. And then move on.

cry, rather than cru..

Hul's probably right. You're already modelling the desired bit after all. He is pleasant and smiley and cuddly, you are pleasant and smiley and cuddly. You being upset/hurt is a natural consequence, not an arbitrary one.

cru though too. You must.

Thanks happy and sof - I think you are right. It is always difficult to know what to do for the best. My ds is aware of different feelings and can identify when others are happy or sad but I'm not sure he is at the stage of actually worrying about the feelings of others yet.

loopy as someone said up post, if I had been at the same soft play as you, I would have been inwardly sympathising with you. You are not an evil mum.

Showof Hands yes in which case I think you might be right there, I was reading as letting kids get away with it in a situation such as above

& definitely agree that different ways can work for different kids, my own DD never responded well to time out - little moo would do something she knew she shouldn't & then put HERSELF on the naughty step/chair or whatever (we had to keep moving it ...LOL) whilst pulling faces & sticking her tongue out at us (it was so hard to keep a straight face & be stern with her at times, as she was just so darn cheeky...lol :) ...so we had to think on our feet & keep changing any "punishments" ....

though in a situation as above, I think I would of done exactly the same - mind you I'm the Mum who called her then 2,1/2 year old bluff by mimicking her tantrum throwing over not getting sweets in a supermarket (pre the TV ad) - so I'm not 1 to get embarrassed easily - got to say though I realised then that worked like a dream - she never had a shopping tantrum again ....though she just moved on to needing the loo every time I shopped instead ...threatening to put her back in nappies soon nipped that 1 in the bud ....all good fun though...lol

hully You are right. Will keep on going and focus on feelings a bit more. And also work on my 'mummy crying' face. Thanks.

" If you are parenting in a way in which you are completely out of step with all other adults who are going to be in charge of your children, it's difficult."

I think this is a red herring. Children are more adaptable and sophisticated emotionally than we often give them credit for. There is no evidence they can't distinguish between how they are treated by a given teacher or caregiver and how they are treated by their parents. Certainly nothing that would make me conform my parenting to the wider social norm (how in God's name do you even do that?)

I'm with ShowofHands and hullygully, but then I'm a serial re-reader of Playful Parenting et al.

I wanted to reassure the OP that she is not a bad mother. I went off at my daughter the other day (she ran away from me in a car park) and felt really bad and that I'd totally ballsed it up, despite my better rational judgment. It's a constant learning curve.

I would have a tantrum if my mum made me sit on her lap in a soft play centre. You can't expect a 4 year old to sit quietly, being punished, whilst everyone else is running around having fun, and for 15 minutes!

I would agree with the distraction theory. It is so much easier IMO to change a situation before it gets to the tantrum stage. I would have said "we don't go up the slide that way, you might get hurt. Let's go and find some steps to climb up instead." Or "Let's go over there, it looks so much fun."

Haven't read the whole thread but it sounds like you did just fine.

The only other thing I can think of to suggest is maybe takingher outside for a few minutes to give her a last chance to calm down. Although that's no easy when you have 2 children with you, loads of stuff and you're trying to keep them both safe as well.

I think you did well sticking to your guns, I'm not sure what else you could've done, seeing as you had already tried gentle warnings.

Just put it down to a bad day, and fwiw I could NEVER distract my ds or pre empt a tantrum and I had been Nannying for years before I had him!

YANBU. If you give in to her demands when you're out then she'll know that she can get away with bad behaviour when you're in public because she knows you won't react.