to be slightly irritated at my friend's fussy eating DS?

[Flyonthewindscreen]

I had two friends for lunch yesterday, they have three DS between them and I also have two DC. I was trying to think of something easy to make to eat that most people would like so got in various pizzas, and all the usual trimmings, garlic bread, salad, coleslaw etc. As I'm putting it in the oven, friend A says her DS (age 9) doesn't like pizza but does like garlic bread, could he have a sandwich. No prob, I say and make him a cheese sandwich. Then friend B says her DS (also 9) doesn't like pizza or garlic bread or cheese sandwiches. Ok I say, eventually he agrees to eat a jam sandwich. Then I have to put up with my own DC who usually like pizza, etc asking why can't they just have jam sandwiches and then pudding.

My own DD is a fussy eater but in this scenario I would ask for her to have a small portion and tell her to make a token effort. I was a bit irritated by my friends pandering to her strapping nine year old DS (hope I didn't show it!). AIBU?

peppapigbutty - i think you touch on an important point in your last paragraph about the child not being invited back. sounds like that child had been indulged to the point of it socially disabling her. i think equipping a child to deal with eating away from home is really important - for the sake of the child not feeling scared/uncomfortable at the v least

OMG - what a minefield a simple invitation becomes. After all, bread is not just bread is it? Or orange juice. We MUST worry about that. There must be at least 50 variations...I know, just don't bother inviting anyone and then they will not reject your offering! or have the jolly sandwich cutters to hand to tempt them. Or expect people to have manners and do not offer an alternative. Offering alternatives undermines a valuable lesson in good manners.

peppapigbutty - a few points - ds1 doesn't eat desserts, so saying 'eat what you can before dessert' isn't going to work - in fact the idea of eating dessert is like saying to him ' once you've finished struggling with that, there's more horrible food to come'.

As for being creative - do you really think I haven't tried everything? As I say, the only thing that has any progress is letting ds1 lead. Because my other children are excellent eaters there is always a variety of foods, so very very occasionally he will try something (eg pizza about 18 mths ago).

As a foster carer, you're not seriously telling me that you would be allowed to let a child not eat for 2,3,4 days until their stomach is contracting and they are vomiting bile???

Lily. Are you mad? No of course I would not starve a child to that extent. Heaven forbid!

Children learn what they live. If a child is consisently given fishfingers than that is what they come to expect. I sometimes wonder what some children have been weaned on. Surely they have not come off the bottle and immediately on to fishfingers?

peppa - but you are talking about children who haven't been looked after properly. They are a particular group with particular experiences. Not all 'fussy eaters' are fussy because they haven't been well treated, far from it.

Some children have very sensitive palates - in fact children in general taste food quite differently from adults. There's an evolutionary stage around 18 months to 3 when children are far more sensitive to bitter foods, hence lots of them going off green veg. Evolutionary biologists think this may be a protective mechanism from hunter-gatherer societies when you don't want the youngsters picking and eating berries that the parents haven't checked.

There are, of course, fussy eaters who are just suspicious of unfamiliar food. This is a good survival trait for the human race, as it happens. And I imagine many adults would be uncomfortable if they were forced to eat something unknown in public - potential for embarrassment is acute.

I still remember one of my Mother's madder friends serving us soup and refusing to tell us what was in it - one of those 'try it and then I'll tell you' idiots. It was horrid but I managed to sip some of it, somehow. Turned out it was snake. No wonder I grew up to be a vegetarian!

Do you accept Peppa that there is a difference between children who've never been offered a nice home cook meal who baulk at idea because it's not something they are used to or familiar with the idea that meals take effort to cook v's one that watches mum cook every night, will eat some good food and knows what a casserole looks like but doesn't want it for whatever reason.

peppa, I'm not mad - but that's what ds1 has done as a response to exactly the methods you and fishtanks advocate. And people on here say it's crap to say that 'if a child is hungry they will eat'.

I beg to differ.

And there's nothing wrong with fishfingers, btw. Frozen food is great as it doesn't lose nutrient content. Fishfingers are usually filletted fish, with no bizarre ingredients or additives.

Sneering at fishfingers doesn't make you a better human being. It can mean you are sadly ill-informed about nutrition.

And there is a difference between children in care who perhaps have never seen a home-cooked meal, and a child like ds1 who tastes things so strongly that many (most) foods make him gag, some make him vomit, and the smell and texture makes him feel ill.

and yy, fishfingers are very good, esp if 100% cod fillet. In fact my HV suggested fishfingers were a very good first finger food....

(Hastily adds, I didn't actually follow that particular suggestion, as it did seem a bit odd....)

I am always amazed at the assumptions made by (some) people about parents of fussy eaters, ie that we must have "weaned them on fish fingers" or stuff them full of biscuits ten minutes before teatime etc etc

I am the parent of a fussy eater but I'm not a fricking idiot.

DS1 has a very healthy diet - bread, cheese, fruit, veg, pasta, fish (yes in fish finger form, who cares?). But it is pretty limited. I have chosen not to make food a battleground so I stick mostly to stuff I know he will eat and throw in something new every now and then, his repertoire is slowly expanding and he eats a lot of stuff now that he wouldn't have 18 months ago. He has never got second options and never been allowed to fill up on crisps/sweets/etc.

(Ironically, DS2, who is the least fussy child possible, kind of was weaned straight onto fish fingers as from the start he would only eat what DS1 was having, wouldn't countenance baby food at all!)

Meg, that's pretty well our approach too - I attempt to make food a pleasurable experience for everyone, and particularly ds1 - I know from experience that if he gets anxious about it, or worries about the food then he can't eat even the things he normally likes, because he can't swallow it. So he eats much better if the food is mainly stuff he likes, but there is other food on the table that he can try if he really wants to (and very very occasionally he does).

Slow going, but I hope to get him through it with no emotional issues to do with food, and a healthy relationship with food. I especially don't want to make food into a tool he can attempt to manipulate us with.

Lily From your posts it does seem that your child has an eating disorder well over and above that of a fussy eater. Have you sought proffessional advice? Of course there are children who have an aversion to different foods but I dont think this is the point of the original post.

Yes there is a huge difference between a fussy eater and a child who has learnt to be rude. My own DC have plenty of playdates and will always endeavor to eat whatever they are given, even if it is not a familiar food. They may come home and say they are starving because they did not like the food at so and so's house. But at least they tried and for that I am proud of them. I personally would hate my DC's to be thought of as rude.

Peppa and Fishtank are dealing with exceptional cases though. As a social worker I am only too aware of the limited diets children in care are used to. I can also see their frustration when children they receive are eating a varied and balanced diet in a short period of time, yet posters are arguing that they are wrong. I fully applaud foster carers. They are doing a job I could never do. I simply wouldn't have the patience! But these kids come on leaps and bounds. Even their concentration in school is obvious when they are provided with a healthy and balanced diet.

One of my cases was a 12 year old who had eaten nothing but pizza, chicken nuggets and chips - FOR 12 YEARS! Within 3 months this child was eating salads, roasts and even tuna fish (unheard of in childrens services!) as well as many other foods alien to her, due to her foster carer. She was considered to be disruptive and unruly in class prior to her change in diet. She went on to achieve a first honours degree in university. Not all to do with her diet of course but it is my humble opinion that [most] foster carers know what they are doing.

OMG! This thread has some posters who just want to argue. The notion that a child is weaned from the bottle onto fishfingers does not suggest there is anything wrong with fishfingers! Just that there must have been something softer in between?

Peppa was merely trying to fathom the link that "fussy" eaters seem to prefer convenience foods such as fish fingers but obviously must have weaned on mashed foods. Where has the other foods they were weaned on gone? Is that so hard to take on? No wonder the more sensible posters have disappeared. I am going too. Some people just like to frown upon good suggestions and come across as the martyr.

Bye bye.

Why are you conflating fussy eating with eating crap and unhealthiness? My DD eats a very healthy, balanced diet, just a very limited one in the number of foods she'll eat. She would not (normally) touch chips, nuggets, burgers, processed meat, pizzas or most pudding foods. She's bright as a button, full of energy and the picture of good health.

Food prepared by someone who has asked you around for a meal is a gift. And you don't look a gift horse in the mouth!

When people ask me 'what do your children like' I say 'whatever you're making'.

DS is a vegetarian and I hope that can be catered for but apart from that - they eat what they're given, or they go hungry.

The numbertaker I cant see any post where someone has said anything to the contrary about your dd. Can you? Good for you if your dd is eating a variety of healthy foods. What exactly is your point?

Indeed... in fact DS1 at age 4 has only just started to eat both sausages and chips, the main reason I've tried to add them into his repertoire is that they're so often served at other kids' houses (often the non-fussy ones!)

Sorry x-post to TheNumberTaker

I applaud the foster carers. They should be extremely pleased that the children they look after are eating a varied diet.

DD2 would eat you if you sat still long enough. She is a human dustbin.

DD1 is a fussy eater. Until she was 4 she was a vegetarian. I tried cooking meat for her, changing the shape / texture / topping / coating. She would help cook / not help cook / be bribed / cajoled. All to no avail. Then one day she ate a bit of chicken dipper at nursery. Now she eats the occasional chicken dipper whilst we are eating other meals. However hideous chicken dippers are, I consider this a success.
She now eats loads of fruit, some vegetables, rice, pasta, nuts, fish fingers and chicken dippers. However, this still means that she eats different food to the rest of us most meal times as I cook almost everything from scratch (she'll eat nothing in a sauce). That is the penalty I pay for trying very hard to make meal times not a battle ground.

Unless you have a fussy eater (and I know the list of foods my DD eats is not too short), I honestly don't think you realise how stressful and trying it is.

If you asked your friends about the meal you were about to make and they didn't say anything about their children's limited diet, then you are entitled to be irritated with them - not the children. If you didn't ask, then I think you need to show a bit more understanding.

My point is, the assumption being made that fussy eating = diet of crap/convenience food, which is far from the case for many of us. I didn't claim anyone said anything about my DD directly. Many of the starve them brigade are extrapolating poor nutritional practices by the parents as the problem. Which is simply not the case if you read peoples' accounts.

Are you a nutritionist, Alwaysieftout?

Absolutely, Meg. Half the problem I find is that DD needs to eat processed crap to fit in when eating at others' houses, yet she's fussy because she's reluctant to eat it.

My boys are very fussy eaters. Only one of them will eat pizza but neither will eat anything like a chicken nugget, sausage, smiley face or other form of processed potato. The oldest wont even eat a chip. But their diet even though it is limited is very good and healthy. Plenty of chicken (only white breast meat will be eaten) and cod (loin as they hate bones in fish).

Give me my fussy eaters any day over a child who will eat any crap just because it is expected.

Jeez! What is wrong with a kid eating sausage and chips for a change from celery sicks and hummous??? Kids need to be able to form social relations with their peer group dont they? I would hate a kid to come to tea who demands something healthy that I dont have in my fridge (and have never heard of)

At least I know that my kids can go to tea in someone elses house and eat what is on offer, weather it be sausage and mash or chicken fricasee. They may even partake in ice cream for afters, as long as it has chocolate sauce and sprinkles of course! there again they would eat a fresh fruit salad without calorific and not good for your digestion sugar as well

my kids rude? certainly not! they know that if someone has taken the trouble to cook them a meal they should be bluddy grateful!

Nothing wrong with sausage and chips (as long as there is beans and brown sauce with it ) and i wouldn't eat hummous if you paid me. It looks like dog sick and makes your farts extra smelly.
Neither is their anything wrong with a child who wont eat a sausage or pizza or anything think else for that matter. i just dont think it is the big deal that this thread is making of it and there is a lot of posts on this thread that imply if your child wont eat anything put in front of them then you have some how failed as a parent.