to have sent 4 yo dd to bed with no story for this..

[camperli]

Having dinner in a hotel and had (pre) ordered a fancy dessert for dd.
She was off having a play in the kids' playroom when dessert came and when she came back I offered her mine (same as we had ordered for her) as they had not brought hers and I was too full to eat all of mine.

DD refused to eat mine and insisted at length on having her own. Eventually I thought, well, we have ordered and paid for it so we may as well get it, so I asked for hers to be brought. They brought a child sized version of mine, not so pretty or so much. She tasted one bite and then pushed it away and said she didn 't like it and wouldn't try any more.

I'm afraid I saw red, marched her to our room immediately and sent her to bed with no story. When asked by very tearful dd why she was being sent to bed, I answered that her behaviour had been selfish and greedy, but I'm not sure that that is an explanation a 4 year old can understand. She has fallen straight asleep.

I am still really angry, but don't know how to explain this come tomorrow morning. Also not sure if my reaction is appropriate.

I think what "upset" me about the OP, was not so much how the OP reacted, because if we are honest, I am sure we have all lost it and over reacted at one time or another (or more).
It was for me, how she didn't really seem sorry at all, couldn't see she had over reacted, and seemed to want to bring it up and go on about it the next day with her DD.
When I have lost it/over reacted/shouted, I immediately realise and feel totally awful, and once we have all calmed down, I apologise.

Here here freudianslip. Had composed a message along those lines last night then deleted and stepped away from the thread!

Yes we have responsibility as individuals, but it always seems like a smokescreen to let the corporations get away with waste on a far bigger scale than individuals are capable of. And then put the guilt on to the consumer ("well if you didn't buy strawberries in december then there wouldn't be a demand for them" nonsense!)

OP - yes you did over-react.

But I think the most important point is (rather than pudding related)....that a child should never, ever go to bed unhappy with no story and (I presume) no kisses/cuddles/affection. HOWEVER naughty they have been. With-holding the normal bedtime routine is just cruel imo and interferes with their sleep.

Yes she was being a bit demanding, insisting on her own. But I wouldn't have given in to her - sounds like she wasn't that interested/hungry any more. You could have then just asked the hotel for a refund of her dessert as it wasn't brought originally. That would have been the end of the story. But easy to say in hindsight.

Ramona, I've reread my posts and other than the (admittedly snipy) response to your (also pretty snipy) post I don't see much that can be construed as self-satisfied. If you can be bothered to pick out any phrases that I shouldn't have used I'd be grateful, I do sometimes think I miss out the subtleties of the British way of communicating and come across as other than what I intend.

Sorry to have sniped, but it does rile me when people from the rich world tell people from the poor world that, basically, what is done in the rich world can't help the poor world, when nothing could be further from the truth (using rich and poor to avoid the whole issue discussed above). It is so convenient, and so fucking untrue. And I know I'm no Mother Teresa and could do more, but the line "not one of those bollox reasons that try to convince them that by shoving down unwanted food they will somehow be helping lessen the surplus food mountains, or put food in the mouth of a starving child in the third world...." is pretty insulting.

As for "I think we are all doing a version of what you are doing" - clearly not, as apparently I am going to turn ds into an obese teenager, give him an eating disorder, run down and take your pick of the things I have been accused of. Surely that's not to do with me being self-satisfied or whatever but is a fundamental disagreement in approach?

Eco, it was me who suggested your posts were self-satisfied, not Ramona.

You need to calm down a bit. Your posts do come across as though you believe it is only you who cares about things, only you who can be bothered to explain to your DC why wasting food should be avoided.

You're not the only one. Many of us avoid waste and more, for example avoiding wasting food and avoiding carbon-guzzling long-haul flights. Some of us might, for example, avoid air travel altogether. But we don't feel the need to 'educate' you on the reasons for this.

Your approach to feeding your son seems very controlling and guilt-inducing for your young child. An awareness of the world is important but the way you described your discussions with your son come across as way too much for a small child to take in. In fact, there are a large number of obese adults who are part of the 'clean plate club', somehow brainwashed into believing as youngsters that y finishing their meal in the UK they can help the starving in Africa.

And I am afraid that even though you originate from what you would call a 'third world' country, it doesn't mean you are automatically the authority on what everyone else should be doing.

South - I never once told anyone what to do, just said what I would do with ds.

Of course I don't think I'm the only one, but the viewpoint that waste is bad was totally lacking in the thread, which is why I came on to represent it. No doubt plenty of others are the same, but they weren't saying it, were they?

As to your views on my feeding habits and discussions with ds (shrug). I was exposed to similar discussions and eating habits at a similar age and don't seem to have any undue issues with food, my weight or guilt, so not losing sleep over that.

Waste is bad which is exactly why the OP was unreasonable not the child who wasn't responsible for the ordering.
OPs reaction to the child not eating the food she'd over ordered was to tell the child she was greedy and selfish and get really angry. We've all done it, well I have anyway, but I know it's my fault for giving too much in the first place. So unreasonable to fly off the handle about it, but no big deal really.

Your first post missed the point that it was the adult who had been at fault and focussed on the selfish greedy child, but said instead that you wouldn't have called them selfish and greedy, you'd have given a lecture on supply and demand and the impact of food wastage on the world.

This is what made me first think you were a lovely intellectual who may not have much common sense. You then continued to focus on your valid argument about the impact of food wastage and assumed anyone thinking OP was unreasonable didn't agree with waste being bad.

While your point about food wastage is completely valid it does not apply to this thread unless you want to apply it to the adult who pre ordered pudding before eating dinner. A child can only waste what they are given to waste in the first place.

Do you understand now?

YABU and expecting far too much. You should pick your battles.

eco - in a home situation it's easier to help your DS to choose how much to put on his plate (although I still think it's ok for him to decide he's full without finishing) but that wasnt the situation for this op. The child wanted her pudding, not her mum's, which seems fair to me. Then she didnt like it when it arrived. I think encouraging a child to eat food she doesnt like, or to continue eating after she's full, is not going to stop waste in the long run. The opposite in fact.

The fact that you didnt comment on the op's waste of food seems odd to me. You're happy to try to prick a four year old's conscience but not an adult's? Who has the most choice about what food they eat and when?

hello again,

for those who wanted to know and were kind enough to ask for more information rather than intimating that my children should be taken into care immediately:

all our meals have to be preordered the day before. In German, which I don#t speak, so its tricky to know what we are getting. Turned out to be a huge amount of food so by the time the chocolate mousse arrived, I tried a bit, because I totally love chocolate and thought I would give the rest to dd who had asked for the same thing the night before.
She was in the kids playroom because there were about 6 courses for the grown ups (due to the lack of German - I thought they were only going to bring what you ticked, not everything else written down as well) and it seemed unfair to make the kids sit through all that when they#d long since finished their noodles.
She came back expecting her own mousse and didn't want to even try mine.

I grew up somewhere that food was scarce and I do have a bad reaction to wasted food. I was angry at admittedly typical, but nonetheless irritating 4 year old behaviour. I was also very tired and so was she.

DD asked if she was going to get a story in the lift on the way to our room to which I replied 'I expect so' - not gracious I know, but I didn't think she should be denied one. In bed, she didn't ask for a story from either her dad or me so we didn't offer one. Both dcs fell fast asleep straight away.

I apologised this morning for shouting at her and said it was of course fine if she didn't like her pudding but that wasting food is not great.

I did over react, but my feelings about wasting food remain the same.

I forgot to say that I also felt truly horrible about the 'greedy and selfish' line, which is what prompted me to come on here last night.
It was a hideous thing to say to a 4 year old. So yes, I know perfectly well that that was VVUB.

Sorry x post - I didn't think i was wasting I guess because I thought she would eat it.

We're all a bit unreasonable every now and again. The important thing is to realise and try not to do it again - I'll try to remind myself of this next time DD1 won't eat my awful cooking!
I hope you enjoy the rest of your holiday :)

Camperli - I'm glad you came back on, I think some of the reactions you got were way OTT and bizarrely vitriolic. Hope you enjoyed the rest of your break.

I'm glad you came back on too :) - its nice to know I was understanding your OP correctly

& yes totally agree Misty

& sorry eco I was fighting your corner, but I do find it a bit arrogant of you to state "am possibly the only person in the whole thread who did not comment on the op's own ordering and leaving of pudding." without having obviously read all the replies- you weren't - there were several of us - including myself - though I can understand why we might of been missed amongst all the spite & bile been spouted by some posters

I hope you enjoyed the rest of your break too camperelli :) & yes little girls can be little wind up merchants, often far more cerebra & l sneakier with it than boys - mine certainly is & she's now a few years older, but I remember around 3/4 been at her worst for this sort of game playing - you upset me Mum & I'll get you later ...LOL

only yesterday I had to drag her away from playing with her friend as it was time to go home - she complained a little, but not too much as she knew there was no point, but the little moo gave me hell all the way home, talked about anything she thought might get a rise out of me & complaining over food she hadn't even been offered yet too - anything she knew would wind me up - thankfully a few years down the line I'm wise to it

What a hight opinion you have of your "little Moo" Rock.

high

I have a VERY high opinion of her Ramona thats why I give her credit for having enough intelligence to respond in the way she does - I can only presume your own experience is either with boys, younger children, less bright, or perhaps you are just naive & perhaps not giving your own children the credit they deserve

you were a bit unreasonable.

but children especially 4 year olds push our buttons very easily. Dont apologise in the morning, it never happened just move on and have a better day together tomorrow

I give my DD 5.5 credit for not being a "little moo".

I give myself credit for never talking about in such terms.

Holidays are stressful aren't they OP

I was brought up by extremist eco-hippies. Who were macrobiotic and sugar free from the 60's onwards. Although I have taken a lot of my upbringing forward into my life, I have chosen not to deny my son sugary foods. He probably gets a lot less than his peers but in my experience denying kids certain foods is a recipe for disaster (is that a pun - I'm not sure).

My brother on the other hand has taken less forward, he is a police officer with an extremely sweet tooth. He is making up for lost time god bless him. He hides packs of funsize mars bars under his bed.

Denial is never healthy.

I also thought the term 'Majority World' was used in favour of third world these days. To denote what it is rather than what it lacks.

But if you thought she would eat yours then you must have realised she wouldnt have then eaten hers?? So still food wasted somewhere..........

All done and dusted now though, and I bet your DD didnt even remember when she got up