to believe that beyond all reasonable doubt

[OurBetty]

there is no god?

Interesting question. Did you know that you would be executed in Afghanistan for even asking this question? so why are so many of our troops dying there?

There are so many gods to many people, and too many wars to defend beliefs in these gods.

I believe in some divine being which I can't define. This crazy universe wouldn't seem to work the way it does without divine creation.

What I really don't understand is when people thank God at awards shows. I'm thinking particularly of the likes of Serena Willians, Beyonce etc... who THANK GOD when they win an award: like God made it happen for them. If that is so, and that God made them so fortunate, doesn't it reason that God also bestowed bad luck on the homeless, the poor and the wretched?

Vagabond but why wouldn't the universe seem to work the way it does without divine creation? Why does there have to an element of divinity?

I believe in aliens.

I just can't imagine there not being a God or at least a divine being of some sort. Sorry, however disillusioned or doubtful I get, the certainty is always present. I try not to believe, I really do!

I just can't comprehend why so many people across all cultures would have this certainty if it weren't true. And I can't comprehend why we need to self aware if it is jsut to disappear into the ether for all eternity.

I watched brian cox a coupel of weeks ago (phoarr!) waxing lyrical about the total end of the universe and found it profoundly depressing and pointless. One day the last star in the universe will go out and there will be nothing else for all eternity.

I'm on Darwin's team..I'm with you!!

SugarPasteFrog.

I would love to know what the valid arguments for there being a god are!

I didn't say it proved it - I said that is how believers would justify their belief. I've been to a new life church a bit recently and speakers have talked about things which I would say were perfectly normal day to day things but they will say they are 'proof' that God is working, if you see what I mean!

I agree completely; it's beyond all reasonable doubt that there is no God.

This is why I think faith is so fascinating (and, to me, comforting) - it is beyond 'reasonable doubt'.

Yep, that's one of the arguments against OurBetty. I wish I could think up 'proofs' like that though.

The 'Christian values' argument of your vicar friend made me laugh - Crusades, pogroms, Northern Ireland, the Spanish Inquisition... are these the values he means?

But hissymissy people across cultures believe in completely different things - who's god wins??!

Just because we don't like the idea of everything just stopping, doesn't mean that it doesn't though.

Ourbetty I would intrept that the exact opposite to your conclusion, but thats just my own personal reading of the stats.

agree, & interesting Vagabond..if there is a God then this is the way, then they, God, has decided who will work and who will play, your lot is your lot so get on with it..

I know this sounds like I'm making it up now for the sake of this thread, but I'm not. A few weeks ago a couple of Jehovah's Witnesses came to the door (was excited, I've never been visited by Jehovah's Witnesses before!). I was happy to listen to them and they took on board my arguments too. By the end of it, one woman said "Yes, that's the problem with religion I suppose. It causes more harm than good." I was and :)

Darwin was a christian.

It's not just that I don't like the idea of there being no God, its because I cannot envisage how a universe coalesced and then will disappear for all eternity without some intervention, and well, just simply a deep knowledge from within. I can't explain it. I just know, like I know that the sun rises in the east.

Of course I could be wrong, so I wouldn't be arrogant enough to claim to hold the whole truth. I can only say that is what I believe. There is as of yet so many questions yet to be anwered by science. When I was at school they said the universe would eventually retract into another big bang. Now scientists say different. Most likely in another 20 years they will say something different again.

Yep - he reverted back on his deathbed, by some accounts. Agnostic otherwise.

if it brings comfort to some, then let them believe

But how can you know it? I'm genuinely confused by that. We KNOW how the sun rises, but we don't know that there's a superior human-like being involved.

OK, I'm not being to be nasty, I'm just questioning - if there was a human-like god why would we worship 'someone' who has created a world based on survival of the fittest, with every creature under threat; where people are forced to live extremely difficult lives in tragic circumstances; in poverty, pain, fear, etc, etc?

Yes, there are literally wonderful things in the world too, so let's celebrate them for what they are. Why attribute it to some 'higher being'?

Maryz believing in gods has caused a huge amount of harm, all over the world.

everyone was religious in Darwins day..Any scientist who had a theory that went against the church was seen as a controversial, but now his theory of natural selection is accepted by most..surely?!!

hissymissy couldn't agree with you more on your last post.