AIBU to think that this is outrageous

[ModreB]

If this happens and firms are allowed to opt out of maternity and paternity leave

here

I agree with it, small companies are those with less than five employees. Someone on maternity/paternity leave could be the end of their business.

Sorry less than 10 employees, I still agree with it, and I worked for a company with only five employees in thorughout a pregnancy and was with them 13 years. I had to return to work after five weeks or the company would have sunk without my input.

but the government reimburse statutory mat pay don't they Fabby?

i think it is a hugely backward step if it happens

Outragous. I'm so sick of the gov
At the moment

I feel we need to be making our voices heard on so many issues
But no one seems to care enough to come out and protest. ( vept students). So frustrated its untrue!!!!

I agree with FabbyChic - it's not ideal for the pg woman but what about the company. My parents employ 2 people and could not afford to pay mat pay and get someone to cover the work - it's unrealistic. The reality is that if small companies have to pay mat pay they will not choose to employ women in their 20s/30s. This is unfair but so is bankrupting a company. It's a tough one but you have to see both sides - we're not talking about multi-million pound companies here.

And what happens if an employee goes on long term sick, for instance if they have an operation and have to be off for a long time? Does the company fold then? I don't think so.

I'm with Fabby.

Government do not reimburse it!

My parents have a contract with employees that there is no sick pay for 6 months but when he was off sick they discovered they had to pay £16 a day to him as stat sick pay - this was as well as taking on a casual labourer to do the work which couldn't wait. My parent's company is only 2 years old and they are basically taking home minimum wage.

Don't be outraged until you understand the other side.

Agree with Modre re the sick leave issue too

with mat leave, the company know and can plan accordingly

Bollocks. Any employee could go under a bus tomorrow. A firm that went bust because one member of staff leaves/dies/goes off long-term sick/gets pregnant is not a well-run firm in the first place. At least with pregnancy you have plenty of warning and can plan cover.

Maternity pay is funded by the government (unless employers choose to be more generous) so there really is no reason at all for firms to discriminate.

The government does currently reimburse the bulk of statutory maternity pay to employers

I believe that an employees NI contributions should be used by the gov to reimburse businesses paying SMP. Small companies don't have to offer OMP (do they?) and if their SMP costs were covered, that would surely keep the workplace a fairer environment for men & women.

If companies start not employing women of childbearing age to avoid mat leave costs but proposals to allow both parents to share maternity leave entitlement are successful, basically that means companies can only safely employ men who have had the snip.

Ruby they do, but it's having to keep the job open, train someone else whilst they are off. I totally understand why they want to remove that option for small companies.

Maxpower, companies already get back what they pay on their monthly HMRC return.

God, this again. The government reimburses 104.5% of statutory mat pay to small businesses.

And if your company would have gone under without your input for more than 5 weeks Fabby it was on very shaky ground in the first place. No business should ever rely that much on one person, anything could happen.

i work for a small company

i was off for 8 months with my second child

they survived - small companies can be creative and manage absences

not saying it is easy but it is doable

Instead of killing maternity rights, they should be looking to invest in ways of supporting small businesses through employee absence - tax breaks or tax holidays, so that the money would be there straight away (preferably before the employee goes on maternity leave so can be used to get a replacement in post and handover arrangerd).

But of course this government, just like the previous one, won't do anything so sensible.

When will they realise that hard-working educated women have the children who are going inherit those qualities and be good future employees?

YANBU
both my wife and I worked for the same small company (9 employees) so when she gave birth to DD our boss had to cope with both maternity and paternity leave. It was fine, and in fact our boss was/is amazingly supportive.

It can be done, when there is a will to do it.

Fucking hell! I can't believe this I really can't. Bastards (yes that's you DC)won't be happy until we're all barefoot and chained to the sink. Misogynistic twats! Surely this has to be against some sort of human rights or equality laws or fucking something. They won't be happy until we've lost the fucking vote!

Companies shouldn't look at it as the odd pregnanct woman costing them - they should look at it as every non-pregnant employee is saving them.

Can some one please explain to me how I could be fair to EVERYONE 2 of my 4 stable girls got pregnant 2 years ago very please for them. Then the chaos started didn't know when they wanted to leave didn't know when they wanted to come back. So it was very dificult to try and arrange qualified cover what are you expected to say to people leave yard x and come and work here. Sorry can't give you a start date until Flossy and Ethel decided what they want to do and by the way I'll have to piss you about over how long you'll have a job here. Would you come to work for me under those conditions? Those not pregnant had to work twice as hard to pick up the slack as expectant mums went on to light duties(rightly) so out of common decency I had to pay them time x half. It was one problem after the other. My choice would of been the girls to leave at 5 months have baby come back part time when they were ready and I had a place for them. I really have no option but to employ stable Lads now

I work for a tiny company and was told by someone at HMRC that they will get paid 104% of my SMP to cover their admin costs

It can cause huge problems mthe money is one thing, the way the job has to be kept open is another. It can be very difficult and I sort of back the government, but think it needs to come up with a more comprehensive alternative. Maybe more money for the small companies and a more rigid set if yes/no dates for small companies.

But then my attitude is that you save to afford to take the time off to have kids. I'm old fashioned and think it's the parents responsibility to provide for their family, not the states.

Very revealing thread. Seems that some incompetent employers can't be bothered to comply with their legal obligations and instead of asking 'how do I do this' are yelling and screaming that they should be exempt from the laws that apply to everyone else.

Beesimo, for instance, seems to be admitting that she breaks the law by refusing to employ women.

If your business is so badly run that you can't replace an employee, that you will fall apart if someone leaves/goes off sick/is killed or gets pregnant, then I'm afraid you just aren't very good at running a business and should probably find something else to do instead.

Unless you are prepared for your customers and employees to flout the law when it suits them in return?