AIBU to think that this is outrageous

[ModreB]

If this happens and firms are allowed to opt out of maternity and paternity leave

here

I don't know, ModreB, but I'm not sure those other things are on the same 'slope' as parental leave. There are already H&S concessions for small firms and pensions contributions are optional. Sickness doesn't compare to having a baby, not least because I can get insurance against illness.

The more I think about it, the more in favour I feel of bundling mat/pat leave in with a universal sabbatical entitlement. Even as a tiny employer, I could build in provision for a year off every five years. People who didn't have babies could use theirs to study, travel, do voluntary work or whatever.

There is a similar arrangement to this in Germany. I don't know the ins & outs of it - think it's a voluntary scheme that employees opt into on flexible terms. I could see something like that working well on several levels.

rollit the collette

You obviously haven't read my post of fri 18th 11.08

I am sorry if you feel it is appropriate and fair to sneer at another woman because she comes at problems from a different angle to you. I first came on MM out of boredom as I am in bed after a accident I stayed with it because I feel I am learning different things from different MMs Neters. It is so funny how you who would call me everything negative and backward don't realise you are actually no different from the hectoring bullying men you so despise.

damn these women and their stupid biology. How very dare they.

yes, because having children is all about the women
Men don't get anything out of him

it

We are just too far apart Rollit you will never understand my point of view I doubt you have any idea what happens in a yard. I would rather go bankrupt than see a heavily pregnant woman do the job I don't care if its their choice to do it I don't want to be looking at it, it would knock me sick

It is the only part of our operation that I have said no more lasses in, but thinking about it we don't employ any women to do any kind of heavy manual work. Is that really fair of you beesimo asks herself I don't know I am struggling with whole bloody thing to be honest like most employers. I feel there has got to be a middle way can't we all aim for the middle instead of each others heads?

bee haven't read the whole thread, but if you wouldn't want a pregnant woman to do a job for health and safety reasons, that's fair enough. But presumably you aren't suggesting that pregnancy is reason to sack a woman.

No No No I have only ever sacked one person in over 20 years and that was for theiving and then trying to blame it on the travellers. I want to be able to say to a lass ok your expecting lovely I am very happy about it then say ok this is my idea howabout we try this.... Before the legislation we had a single girl who fell pregnant this is how it went 'don't worry you can stay in your cottage the new lass can share with you' Your off yard work from 25 weeks would you like to come and work in the house for a bit? If not sign on the dole and then after you've had the baby we'll see if you want to come back pt or what. Don't worry about anything we'll look after you!

DD1 is reading this over my shoulder Mam they are going to kill themselves laughing you because thats acting Paternilistic. Rollit will have you shot for it But thats the truth and thats me sorry if you choke on your suppers!

TheSkiingGardener - how nice tohear someone talk some sense! I was self employed when I had my children and saved regularly for 5 years before I had the first to ensure I could afford to take time off and pay for everything we needed - I really don't see why the state should subsidise this. If you decide you don't want children the state deosn't pick up the tab for anything else you might fancy instead.

They just won't employ anyone at all. They'll use agencies the way so many corporations already do.

YANBU.

The government should support small businesses so that they can provide maternity/paternity leave when necessary, not take them back to the dark ages.

Ah the pitfalls of Capitalism.

Money Money Money Money... Money!

Edam didn't you see 'expectant mums went on light duties' rightly. You are so blinded by your own cleverness that you have a completely closed mind to others point of view you need to have the ability in life to see there is always a posibility you might not be completely right. Its call give and take.

I am a very slow typist and it would take far to long to tell you everything I think and anyway we're not all in lov with sound of our own 'voice'

All my life I have subject to discrimation but sometimes it can be positive, you younger women can't see it but because I am a woman I have been loved and cared for and protected from harm and that is what I want for my DDs. As I see it you don't let or expect a woman to work like a man. Men and Women are equally valuable but very different.

If I was a stable girl I would think my employer a complete and utter bastard if I was pregnant and had to do heavy work I'd want a old style boss like beesimo who would take control of the situation and let me off the hook so many other women have put their sisters on.I would want the chance to have a healthy pregnancy and bond with my baby and not be treated less than a ewe would when she dropped a lamb.

I do agree with higgle. Parental leave is the result of a personal choice. I absolutely agree that BOTH parents should have time away from work to care for their impending / new baby, but I disagree that employers should support this at their employees' random whim.

I also feel it's unfair on those who don't have children - and, yes, I would, wouldn't I? I didn't have kids, and could have done some fantastic voluntary sector work with a lengthy, subsidised leave.

I'm sticking with my newly-thought-out sabbatical programme. I feel it's fairer, more logical and less of a burden on employers :)

beesimo, well done on sticking up for what sounds like a very sensible & compassionate approach.

Of course maternity rights are a necessity, on what planet are you living that people don't have babies?

bees - you really need to read up on your employment law. Providing a safe working environment for a pregnant woman is a legal obligation - indeed, for any employee. You aren't being 'nice' by doing it. In fact, you aren't doing it anyway, are you? Unless you were lying when you said you don't hire women of childbearing age.

EDAM as I said in one of my post..... actually you know what I surrender think what you like make whatever judgments you like, you must of spent ages trying to find yet more pieces of evidence to chuck at me. Whats it all about pet are you going to spend your whole life on your high horse. If your not careful you will end up in a empty room arguing with the wallpaper.

Aren't you allowed to accrue annual leave while you're on maternity leave too? One of my colleagues has just returned. She started m/l early because she was ill, took the full time off, then added another couple of months for all the a/l she'd accrued. That meant she was off for nearly two years in total.