to not want a 'title'

[GirlWithTheMouseyHair]

I'm married but hate it on forms or anything really (especially professionally) where I have to state a title. I don't like the way I'm judged and perceived when I say Mrs (misogynistic industry and I'm quite young) but I'm not a Miss and again feel judged and decide upon when I put Ms.

Does anyone else get like this? Why can't the title field be optional?

Sorry this isn't a more interesting thread than the title suggests - I ought to be contemplating a damehood really!

I changed my surname when I got married as I've always felt my identity was in my first name and I liked dh's surname. Wouldn't have changed if his surname was Maggot or something. I like us being the M* family. I have a work title and mostly used that until I got sick of being asked about people's rashes and lumps when off duty. Although if someone annoys me I'll do the whole it's not Mrs it's Dr thing - usually with telesales when I don't just hang up. But mostly I'm just my first name.

I use Ms, nobody is judging because nobody really cares.

Was reading the New York Times supplement from the Observer last night. They refer to every woman in their articles as 'Ms' and all the men are 'Mr'. I was impressed!

I do get a bit fed up of people questioning why I use 'Ms' rather than the title they think I should be using. It happens a lot.

Officially I use Ms and havent changed my name. One reason is that I like my name and the other is because I dont want my children from a previous relationship to have different names to me. Occasionally and for informal purposes I will use Mrs and my married name as strangely my husband loves to see me using it.

Hi
interesting reading, my issue with the whole title thing is when people try to guess it for you rather than ask you. I'm a Mrs and prefer to me known as Mrs, just like when I was a Miss I wanted to be known as that. If you are going to write to someone and use their name you should try and spell it right, well I feel that people should take the time to find out your title and get it right.

Everyone has their own feelings on if it is important or not I have to say I hate being referred to as Ms, think it must have come from before I was married and people would assume. Recently I was called Miss on my scan letter, I asked them to correct it, why am i so concerned? I do have many more important things to worry about, but for some reason it does, oh dear, :)

But in a social setting though, why would you use your professional title?

"So I have tolerated Christmas cards addressed to Mr and Mrs (which, I think given that I am a Dr and they've known it for years, is especially telling)."

Actually, beautyspot, I also never sign with a title and I am a female - so you are guilty of making sexist assumptions .

OK - I do sign with my full name not an initial, but given that my first name, combined with my last name, would lead people to assume that I am - or could be - male, then I am guilty of causing the confusion that you complain about. However, I don't see the relevance of "signalling" my sex (let alone my marital status) in official correspondance.

However, there is an easy solutions: You reply (as they do in some countries, using the full name, ie Dear if you want to remain 100% formal, or just use the first name (if they have given it to you) if you are comfortable with that.

My CV is an example of something that is totally gender neutral: you can't tell from my name whether I am male or female and I don't use a title on a covering letter.

Failing that, the original sender has no right to be upset if you insist on using a title and get it wrong.

I gues because if you have a title because you've worked for it and acheived the qualification, e.g. PhD, it's really not so different to having a title acquired because you married someone - it just says something different about you. Would you expect a Rev to be addressed as Mr or Mrs in a social setting? The Christmas card thing that annoys me more is suddenly becoming Mrs DHFirstname DH/our surname. I chose to take his surname because I liked it more than mine (which was really dull) - i didn't entirely become a subset of him...

I don't ever sign with a title either. It's never occurred to me that I should.

I'm Ms: I'm single. When I get married? I'll still be Ms.

I find the post thing incredibly frustrating. Before DH and I were married, we got some post simply addressed to "Bling and DP" which I always thought a bit strange, but mostly, we got pst addressed to "BlingLoving and DHNameSurname".

Now that we're married, even though I have made it very clear I am still Ms Loving, we get post addressed either to "Mr and Mrs DH SUrname" or "Bling and DHFirstName".

Because people think it's awkward to write "(Mr) Dh Surname and (Ms) Bling Loving" Which I simply don't understand.

Habbibu
Don't most people work for something. Do you think dentists should sign their names "dentist Smith", should hairdressers be called "hairdresser Smith" should welders become "Welder Smith" ??

Why can't we all be Mr or Ms whatever.

Those people that call themselves Dr are poncy too!

Well, a PhD is a qualification, not a job. I'm not poncy in most respects, so will survive this one indulgence, I guess.

Yes and dentists, hairdressers, welders also have a qualification - which I don't imagine they want to use before their names in a poncy way . I reiterate, why can't we all be Mr or Ms ??

But it's not a qualification which has historically come with a title. Though I suppose everyone with a Bachelors or MAsters degree could call themselves those titles. I get your point, but I think it's a bit dull, tbh - I like all the Rev Admiral Dame Dr Professor stuff. Except I don't like Dame.

On the rare occasion I use a title, I am Ms. I was Ms when single, Ms when married and now Ms when getting divorced. Nothing to do with militant feminism (in my social circle Ms is the norm) but I would be flattered if you want to attach that tag to me!

I am a professional and sign letters and emails Firstname Secondname - no title as my sex or marital status is irrelevant to the advice I give.

I don't know anyone who uses Mrs. Maybe it's a generational or class thing perhaps? I'm not sure. But I am horrified that some Mrs-users think that they get more respect. As Viola pointed out, do you think it's OK for non-married women to be treated with less respect?

The answer has got to be either drop titles or adopt Ms universally. In my world that happened a long time ago - really surprised that it's not more widespread.

Scroobius, let's be friends! In my world, I am the only woman in my extended circle who has not taken DH's name and the only one who refers to herself as Ms.

Habbibu and beautyspot - those are interesting points. It's true that Mr/Ms defines just gender. If you use a title like Dr or Professor, you're also defining work/qualificiation and should that therefore be possible for everyone? I'd never thought about it but think I will more carefully now. Irrelevant in my life as both me and DH are straight Mr and Ms, but it has made me think.

My dad had a work-related title, which I noticed he used until he retired, at which point he seems to have reverted to Mr (except, hilariously, with some old school friends of my brother's who for reasons I will never full understand continue to call him by his old title!)

I hear what you are saying scrobbious and pretty bird and I am 100% behind no "titles" however when you are writing to someone or trying to contact someone by phone and they are known simply as J Smith how do you find/address them?

I've known people to get very annoyed when they get letters from me with Dear Mr or Ms J Smith.

I do think it's necessary that we have some differentiation between male and female...Mr and Ms.

What's wrong with just addressing the letter "Dear J Smith" ?

So there seem to be two issues here: do we need titles altogether and I think that in certain circumstances, yes we do. It is polite when addressing someone you don't know in a business or professional environment, particularly in written correspondence, to use a title.

The second issue seems to be, do we need two or even three titles for women when men only generally one (professional titles excepted). I would argue not, given that this is 2011, and that men are not defined by their marital status when introducing themselves and never have been. Isn't it time women moved away from this now?

I had thought Ms was pretty much universally used these days - until I came on MN and saw some women saying they never use it and don't know anyone who does

I think it depends a lot on your field of work and the 'circles' you move in. Socially though I don't use any title, surely family and friends just address you by your name? And in my experience titles are very rarely used professionally either, it's usually just names!

Of course this is one of the reasons MN is so fascinating, I think we all have a tendency to assume everyone else thinks and behaves like us and the people we know, but it's not the case at all. The wearing-shoes-indoors thread was a lovely example of this, everyone convinced that what they do is normal and other practices are weird or rude or somehow abhorrent .

I think these days (apologies if the point has been made before) the only point of the "title" field on forms is so the people reading them can tell what gender you are!!

sure, it shouldn't matter, but if your name is something gender neutral e.g. Sam, Jo, it can help avoid the confusing.

any West Wing fans? remember

about 2.30 minutes in

But in general, why does in matter if you know what gender someone is? where it's necessary, in forms, they can ask the question directly. I think that's one of the reasons I like Dr (and I suppose if there were other professional titles etc) because it doesn't define by gender, and while there is still so much gender inequality, that's quite nice to have.

Now-DH and I were unmarried when DS1 was born (I was 22 years old). I automtically gave him DHs surname, and couldn't wait to take my DHs name when we married 18 months later.

Looking back, taking Mrs DHSurname is one of my biggest regrets, and when I consider ny reasons for doing so I have a horrible feeling it was due to self-consciousness on my part (of not being labelled a young, unemployed, single mother of X number of children, when in fact I was educated, gainfully employed and settled with my partner/husband. I live in an area where there is a real social divide, and I was young and struggling with self-esteem as it was) So perhaps society stereotypes make some women feel obliged to conform to a particular stereotype? I don't know, but I really admire those with the foresight to consider it carefully and not feel pushed either way.

I have ordered a new nameplate for our front door to replace the Mr & Mrs DHSurname one. DH is rolling his eyes. A lot.

On a different note, one of my friends has a professional title and uses Dr Hyphenated-Maidenname at work, and Mrs DHSurname at home. I quite fancy having two totally different names