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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not want a 'title'

437 replies

GirlWithTheMouseyHair · 14/03/2011 12:51

I'm married but hate it on forms or anything really (especially professionally) where I have to state a title. I don't like the way I'm judged and perceived when I say Mrs (misogynistic industry and I'm quite young) but I'm not a Miss and again feel judged and decide upon when I put Ms.

Does anyone else get like this? Why can't the title field be optional?

Sorry this isn't a more interesting thread than the title suggests - I ought to be contemplating a damehood really!

OP posts:
Habbibu · 14/03/2011 16:22

But no, I don't like the sound of Ms either - fine written, but not spoken.

aliceliddell · 14/03/2011 16:23

Presumably I'm the only Ms Mydadsname whose daughter is also Ms Mydadsname? So dp is the only one with a different second name. People think he's called Mr Mydadsname as he is biological dad of dd, or he is her stepdad due to different name. The reason we did this is overtly political as neither of us think women and children get their identity by virtue of their relationship with a man. If anyone believes it's not an issue, why did Cassius Clay change to Mohammed Ali? Why was Malcolm X so named? Because the original names were from slavery. Why were the servants in "Gosford Park" known by and called their employers name? Obviously it is the outward sign of inequality. Why do you want to maintain your status as chattels?

prettybird · 14/03/2011 16:27

As someone pointed out near the start of the thread, "Ms" is not a recent invention: it was used in the 17th century as the shortening for the formal "Mistress" and like Mister/Mr, was neutral on marriage status.

It's a shame we couldn't resurrect that useage/pronounciation - a but like the French Madame which is used for all women beyound teenagers.

Prunnhilda · 14/03/2011 16:33

Alice I know a family where the children have the mother's name (the parents are married and have not changed). It's another way of doing it. It's all arbitrary really, when you consider how many different ways the subject is tackled in different cultures and indeed within ours.

I do have my father's surname but I don't consider myself a chattel - I do perfectly understand the history of it, but the naming thing is just a hangover from an earlier time, and it's by no means clear that all women were seen as chattels. Obviously he doesn't think of me as a possession and I don't think of him as an owner.

saralyn · 14/03/2011 16:42

Here in Norway we have almost completely stopped using titles.

We used to have Mr/Mrs/Miss equivalent, but they fell out of use 30/40 years ago. We might very occasionally use titles for women 60 plus who were used to them when then were younger, but for people below 60 they are never used. So titles will clearly disappear when that generation dies.

I think this is good, i see no point in using titles, and always found it a bit strange when I lived in England. (I used Ms btw, as i want it to be neutral. Was always a bit tempted to tick "Dame" or "Sister" though ;)

PepsiPopcorn · 14/03/2011 16:42

If women have to be either Mrs or Miss, then men should have to choose either Mr if they're married or Master if they're not. Otherwise just Mr/Ms is fine.

PurpleFrog · 14/03/2011 16:44

I once scored out all the options available on an order form and put Dr. When they sent the goods they were addressed to Mrs D.R.P. Frog ! Aargh!

Often Dr has also been translated into Mr - including on airline tickets. Luckily they allowed me to travel!

activate · 14/03/2011 16:45

Why can't the title field be optional?

Because it is polite for people to address you by your last name and as you are not a public schoolboy there needs to be a title in front of

so if you don't want MRs then go with Ms

freelancegirl · 14/03/2011 16:55

I always hated Ms the same as I hated 'partner' but I was happy having a 'boyfriend' for ten years and being a 'miss'. Was happy too to get married but found I still can't change my name. Think am going to keep it. I've been me for 30 odd years, it seems so strange to change it now. Even though I hated my surname as a kid. So I now find myself stumbling over the form box - I am not a Miss anymore nor can I put Mrs when I am keeping my own surname. So Ms it is. It's growing on me.

girlwiththemousyhair I had someone write me a rather harsh message objecting to being called 'girls' on another discussion and I found that response really upsetting (I was feeling a bit hormonal and teary and posting as such on the board so I think it was something of an unfair retort). My Nan, who is almost 100 and my mum in her 70s still both say they feel like girls and still say they are going out with 'the girls' or that 'the girls' are around for a cuppa. so I don't think there's any harm in us feeling like girls too. MardyBra and others might object but hopefully they can exclude themselves when they see anyone referring to it on here.

Hi girls! :)

allgonebellyup · 14/03/2011 17:01

Why would anyone LIKE being called a "Mrs" ? (Men dont have to declare if theyre married!!!)
To me it has always implied some middle aged lady tied to the kitchen sink..!
When I was married I kept my name and was a "Ms."

LisamumtoJake · 14/03/2011 17:15

I'm married but occasionally use my maiden name as well as my married name, will use Miss L Maiden name or Mrs L Maiden-Husband name.
Men only have the option of MR us women have 3 options, lucky us Hmm

Honeybee79 · 14/03/2011 17:19

I don't think people judge you if you use Ms do they? No one really cares much these days surely though I can see why you mind find it mildly irritating.

DH (who, admittedly, is often a pendantic wanker) gets pissed off if anyone forgets the "Dr" which I think is a bit silly to be honest (phd not medical doc)

TallulahBetty · 14/03/2011 17:19

I like being Mrs. Not sure why; I am proud to be married to my husband and have taken his surname so can't really be Miss anymore. I personally can't stand Ms, although I can understand why a lot of people use it.

Prunnhilda · 14/03/2011 17:23

TallulahBetty, I'm curious as to why you can't stand it. I can understand not being bothered about it (since you're very positive about Mrs). (Not being arsey btw, just wondered what it is that makes you not be able to stand it.)

kattyo · 14/03/2011 17:24

There should be the option of no title (though when I've tried to choose that when ordering stuff over the phone i've been told it isn't an otpoin). otherwise I choose Ms. Miss would be ridiculous - I'm middle aged, unmarried with children - and Mrs would be a lie. People address me as Mrs often assuming that because I have kids I am married. It makes me furious every time I hear it. If titles have to be there better as an age thing (signifying above 18). And either Master/Mr and Mrs/Miss or Mr/Ms.

chocciechip · 14/03/2011 17:25

I usually use no title at all, but when I absolutely have to I am Dr Chocciechip and DH is Mr Ordinaryname. I like it that people who assume 'Mrs' and start arranging their faces into a smirk when I hesitate and they think I'm about to say Ms, then have to re-arrange their faces into something else when they hear Dr. It does neutralise the judgemental attitudes, even though I know (and don't care) it can come accross as pretentious. Also, I have to say that after years of slog, the possibility of going from the option of a name that defined me by my hard work, to one that defined me by my husband's identity and my marital status didn't sit well at all.

DH was originally a bit bemused, but says he now thinks it is "freakishly weird" that the norm is for women to change their names, and loves it that I didn't. He seems to talk about it a lot with others at work and always bringing home anecdotes of debates he's had with other men.

But I am also a coward. DH's family have no idea because its the sort of topic that would only come up if I made a pointed issue of it; and I haven't because his very elderly pugnacious bullying father would have a fit and the long drawn out drama, plus attempts to publically embarass me, are just not worth it. After we got married FIL relished saying 'Will the Ordinary names be joining us for dinner' etc, slamming home over and over that I was now 'one of them'. It was pointed. This is accompanied by similar mentality of 'You're one of the family now' to essentially justofy his new right to talk to me how he likes. He's a right sod. Infuriates me.

So I have tolerated Christmas cards addressed to Mr and Mrs (which, I think given that I am a Dr and they've known it for years, is especially telling).

But things will be hitting the fan soon because we're expecting our first child and all the complications surnaming him/her will bring. FIL is going to be intolerable, and I am dreading it. My name and title matter a LOT to me, and I am always baffled that other people, even if they have made other choices, which I respect, can't see why.

allgonebellyup · 14/03/2011 17:27

Kattyo - i HATE being labelled as a Mrs, simply because i have children- it makes me want to hit them!
Especially when they call me "Mrs M*" which is my daughter's last name- i do not want to be labelled the same as my wankface ex,or even be associated with him!

TallulahBetty · 14/03/2011 17:31

Prunnhilda - I actually have no idea! Perhaps it's because I know very few women who use the title Ms, and it's in the case of divorce so perhaps I see negative connotations? Like I said, I can completely understand the uses of it in the examples given in this thread, but I do not know anyone who uses it for those purposes.

kattyo · 14/03/2011 17:32

We all went on holiday when my mother was awarded her PhD and we arrived at the hotel to find a Dr and Mr title. Appeared inconceviable to Italians that a woman could be the better educated....

There are disadvantages to non medical doctors though - the apocryphal tale is true - you may be asked, as happened to my ex, if you are the doctor on the plane if something goes wrong with a passenger. And it's a bit embarrassing if you have to say... well yes, if you want a bit of nineteenth century Jewish text analysed...

prettybird · 14/03/2011 17:33

I actually don't mind if people call me Mrs . Given that I still use it (and like it - it's so unusual :)), I choose to look on the use of it as a form of "Mistress". Because it is irrelevant to others whether I am or am not married, I choose not to correct them.

As a result, dh sometimes gets called Mr . How/whether he chooses to correct them is up to him Grin

Pekkala · 14/03/2011 18:53

I've just ordered a washing machine from Dixons as 'Mr Pekkala' as the only title options were Mr/Mrs/Miss. Prior to this, I can't actually remember the last time I haven't had the option of choosing 'Ms' on a major website, it's so long ago. I'm a bit pissed off there was only Mr to chose from actually, I quite fancied being an Admiral or a Reverend tonight.

sprinkles77 · 14/03/2011 19:09

I don't really care...but I can use the title "Dr", which means often people assume I'm a man!

theanimalswentintwobytwo · 14/03/2011 19:57

I think you are supposed to use Miss if you're not married, Mrs if you and are and Ms if you're divorced.

I think...

moodymama · 14/03/2011 20:00

I always use Ms, always have.
Never been an issue for me.

eaglewings · 14/03/2011 20:10

My dh and I share the same title due to our qualification and work. I am happy with Mr & Mrs Eaglewings but when it is * and Mrs Eaglewings I get very Angry

My dh thinks this is wrong too so will reply Mr & * Eaglewings to make the point!!

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