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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not want a 'title'

437 replies

GirlWithTheMouseyHair · 14/03/2011 12:51

I'm married but hate it on forms or anything really (especially professionally) where I have to state a title. I don't like the way I'm judged and perceived when I say Mrs (misogynistic industry and I'm quite young) but I'm not a Miss and again feel judged and decide upon when I put Ms.

Does anyone else get like this? Why can't the title field be optional?

Sorry this isn't a more interesting thread than the title suggests - I ought to be contemplating a damehood really!

OP posts:
JessinAvalon · 15/03/2011 22:01

Is that true about the driving licence? The title on my driving licence isn't the one that I would like to use but I only noticed recently. I think that would be the only bit of identification that I had then that wouldn't have 'Ms' on it.

@Didoreth - I agree with what you say about 'Mrs' and am tempted to start using it myself just to subvert tradition! Ms - Mizz/Muzz is a difficult word to say (well, I find it to be!) and it does sound very much like 'Miss'.

I always say 'Mizz - M. S.' so that people don't put down 'Miss' which has happened a few times.

I don't know where 'Ms' came from but you're right - Mrs would have been better and would have been in keeping with European countries adoption of the Frau/Madame type of title for adult women.

Habbibu · 15/03/2011 23:22
batsintheroof · 15/03/2011 23:33

systemsaddict
are you actually me??? :)

WinterOfOurDiscountTents · 15/03/2011 23:34

How is Ms a difficult word to say, unless you have a speech impediment?

Guildenstern · 16/03/2011 06:45

Another Ms here.

And if my only option is Miss/Mrs/Mr, which is all too often the case, I always use Mr. I feel it is the most accurate title available, as it refers to an adult without mentioning marital status.

To the posters who think it's not an issue, I am afraid that it still is in certain unenlightened circles. Young, educated, intelligent people in certain parts of the country still have the strangest views on what Ms means.

faxittome · 16/03/2011 07:50

Sorry - had an early night so just came back to this now. It was only four years ago. And it was a big high street bank. He made a HUGE fuss and told them he would be moving banks and they finally relented and let them have just his (very clearly) male name on the card.

ReshapeWhileDamp · 16/03/2011 09:00

YANBU, and yes, all this does matter. Am frankly rather shocked that women think it doesn't. Hmm

I am Ms if there's no other option, as I hate to be defined by my relationship status, but would rather do without a title altogether - the Quakers have it right, I reckon! However, if there's no Ms option, I select Dr, which I'm entitled to, and at least is gender non-specific and stems from something I've worked for rather than from my gender or marital status.

There. Do I win the day's award for Most Humourless MNer? Grin

majordanjarvis · 16/03/2011 09:02

Whenever I see that someone is calling themselves "Ms.", I roll my eyes and think, "Uhuh, we've got a right one here...".

And never recruit.

frgr · 16/03/2011 09:16

majordanjarvis, that's ok. i probably wouldn't want to work with you anyway, if that's the case.

i'm not saying this as a knee jerk reaction - i don't think I'd fit into a culture where it was seen as common sense to filter out female candidates depending on which title they've ticked on a form.

and i work in an office where the average age is around mid-40s to late 50s, and we have a relatively diverse set of stakeholders (well, clients on projects really) so i'm more than used to working with people of a different mindset/upbringing than my own...

Original poster
GirlWithTheMouseyHair · 16/03/2011 09:21

surely Biscuit there from jarvis

sadly though I don't think that is a rare thought to go through certain bigoted minds

OP posts:
Prunnhilda · 16/03/2011 09:21

When my son was born, I got a cheque from an old family friend written out to myfirstname dh'ssurname. (What annoys me is that dh'ssurname is really hard to spell, so the sender must have contacted my father to check it, and he knows full well I haven't changed and never mentioned it.) We have a joint account and it was clear what had happened but I was prepared not to be able to bank the cheque, no biggie really as technically it was not written to me.

Sure enough, that's what happened. I didn't mind. But the bank woman took it upon herself to tell me that I should have changed my account name by now, that they give us about 6 months' "grace" in which to do it, and that I wouldn't be allowed to open an account under my maiden name should I wish to in future, so I'd better sort it. (I couldn't quite follow that bit.)

I was apoplectic. I just stood there saying "It is NOT my maiden name, it is my NAME" but obviously she was quite bigoted and intractable and a bit stuck in the past. Whatever. We don't use that bank any more.

ScroobiousPip · 16/03/2011 09:26

Yeah, don't think I could work in such a bigoted work environment, either. Grin

Thankfully, I work in a somewhat more enlightened profession so have never struggled for work despite being a Ms all my life.

Prunnhilda - I'm Shock. Please say this wasn't recent? What is it with banks???

Prunnhilda · 16/03/2011 09:36

It was in 2006.
She was about my age, as well. Some people really do have a wasp to chew over it, but it's not really clear why!

majordanjarvis · 16/03/2011 09:40

I think, if you consider the argument about changing "one's name" on marriage to its logical conclusion, you are effectively arguing over the right to retain your Father's surname as opposed to adopting the surname belonging to the man that you have married.

Either way, the name is a male derivative.

Prunnhilda · 16/03/2011 09:43

Oh do keep up! That's already been done.

frgr · 16/03/2011 09:46

majordanjarvis - reading or logical fail.

which is it?

re-posting my own post again - please respond with your thoughts:

^Why is it that men automatically own their surnames, yet you do not own yours?

Your statement is actually wrong.

You'd be choosing between your husband's father's name vs. your own father's name - in which case, do you not feel a closer connection to your own father than your father-in-law?

In other words, why is it that growing up your husband's surname becomes "his" (although it's his father's surname) yet yours does not become "yours" (just as it was given to you as your father's surname).

It is sly statements re: ownership of this sort that really get my feminist hackles up.^

frgr · 16/03/2011 09:49

"Either way, the name is a male derivative." also, if you're talking about logical conclusions, isn't that whole defeatist attitude rather in the same light as argumentum ad antiquitatem?

Because there's no point changing how things are done since it all goes back to a male name anyway, right? [sigh]

BlingLoving · 16/03/2011 09:49

Majordan: clearly you feel women should just accept we are chattels of men.

In my case, yes, my surname comes from my father, but I know people whose surname comes from their mother. Frankly, I couldn't care less where the surname cones from because unlike with the miss or mrs title, my surname does not intrinsically shout to people who don't know me that I belong to a man- my father or husband.

I do find it sad (sorry) when women say they are proud to be mrs or feel they get more respect as mrs. I can't believe they are ok with their marital status defining them in a way it doesn't define their dh's. Also, I guess that means they think less of their single friends and family members?

ThisIsANiceCage · 16/03/2011 09:55

Ooh, majordanjarvis, were you a conservatory salesman in Homebase 5 years ago? Grin

Habbibu · 16/03/2011 09:58

Nah, I'm guessing that majordanjarvis works for a high street bank. "A right one here" - actually, maybe he's a researcher for the Wright Stuff?

Four years ago, fax? Really? Are you tempted to name and shame?

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar · 16/03/2011 10:05

More fool you then, majordan.

In my organisation, if word got out that you had indeed sifted out someone on the basis of their name, you'd be up on a disciplinary btw.

Mshappy · 16/03/2011 10:15

As far as I am concerned, I started out with this surname, it is mine no matter where it came from. I have always been known by this name. I am not changing my identity. It is not a feminist thing at all. (I am proud to be married to my husband, it is our commitment bond & it did bring us closer. I wear my engagement & wedding ring when i go out with pride). My husband doesn't mind that I didn't automatically take his name, he is not at all old fashioned. (Although I think his friends are, as they do like to judge. I have heard one of them within earshot calling me a "feminsit", in a fairly disgusted tone, as if it's a really bad thing to be). I hate it when people automatically assume that I am a Mrs & even worse when they call my by the incorrect surname, (my husband's). Even when I have stated my name & corrected them, they still keep doing it. Also by not revealing your marital status on your CV & application forms for jobs, I believe that can be beneficial. My husband & I have seperate bank accounts in our own names, this is very practical. His debts are his & mine are mine. We do not share appear on each other's credit record. We called our children by both our surnames, we just double barrelled them. There was no aurgument about who's name came first, we did it the way that sounded best. I'm not having a rant, just stating the way I feel about the whole thing really.

ReshapeWhileDamp · 16/03/2011 10:33

I feel that my original surname is more mine because it's been part of my identity from birth. My assumed surname (DH's) is far more recent and reflects part of my adult life, sure, but I still don't want to be identified as and defined by my marriage!

The anti-feminist/whatever argument that our original surname merely reflects another sort of bondage, so why bother to keep it, misses this point entirely.

I hate being Mrs DH's-surname - apart from anything else, it makes me look over my shoulder for my MIL! Grin I am (first name)(maiden name)(DH's surname) - without a hyphen - and announced this as part of my speech at out wedding - seemed an appropriate place to do it! That way, I share a surname with my family but don't feel like I've left my former identity behind.

prettybird · 16/03/2011 10:59

faxittome: you should name and shame the bank!! Grin

Worcesterwoman · 16/03/2011 11:02

I HATE Ms, a particular type of person uses this title and it's sooooo not me :o)
I actually always refer to myself by my full name without title ....thought most ladies did that these days .... oops I said 'ladies', those that advocate the use of 'Ms' I suspect do not like that word either insisting on the use of 'woman' instead, am I right lol? :o)