Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not want a 'title'

437 replies

GirlWithTheMouseyHair · 14/03/2011 12:51

I'm married but hate it on forms or anything really (especially professionally) where I have to state a title. I don't like the way I'm judged and perceived when I say Mrs (misogynistic industry and I'm quite young) but I'm not a Miss and again feel judged and decide upon when I put Ms.

Does anyone else get like this? Why can't the title field be optional?

Sorry this isn't a more interesting thread than the title suggests - I ought to be contemplating a damehood really!

OP posts:
thomasbodley · 15/03/2011 19:40

Laughs.

Invisiblesoul · 15/03/2011 19:45
Smile
Mshappy · 15/03/2011 19:47

I use Ms too. I never took my Husband's name when we got married. I decided to keep my own on principle, as it is not UK Law that you have to take on the mans' name. Freedom allows you to keep your own identity if you wish. I am not a hardcore feminist, just have priciples. My husband thinks it's cool.

thomasbodley · 15/03/2011 19:52

What was your principle, MsHappy?

I can truly say I've never thought about it.

Some of my stuff is still Miss (because I've never changed) and some is Ms (because others changed for me). Very occasionally I get sent things addressed to "Mrs" - they're always from my MIL or (bizarrely) from my GBF!

Mshappy · 15/03/2011 19:54

Wow! Why are some ladies getting annoyed about this topic enough to watch & reply, if it isn't that important to them?!! please chill out.

Mshappy · 15/03/2011 19:56

My principle was my Surname is my Surname & why should i change it, that's all. Logic. I'm not all nutty about it.

thomasbodley · 15/03/2011 20:00

Wasn't getting at you, MsHappy, was just curious.

thomasbodley · 15/03/2011 20:03

What I did object to was the supposition that marriage is a state to be "proud" of, and that it was an "achievement" which should therefore be acknowledged with the title of Mrs.

The suggestion being that 'Mrs' connotes a superior status to Miss or Ms. Which it may have done before the Married Women's Property Act, but no longer.

Mshappy · 15/03/2011 20:03

Sorry, looking at my last post, it does look a bit nutty! I am not nutty, really! He, he. (And I do love my Hubby, but drew the line at taking his name, we have a good partnership) x

Invisiblesoul · 15/03/2011 20:11

It's just odd.

CarysFach · 15/03/2011 20:14

Haha! I'm not married, and people do look at me with a puzzled face when they realise that I'm unmarried, but have a child and teach in the nicey nice nice middle class school they've chosen for their child. Bollocks to anyone who says anything.
Anyway, i did marry the other half, my Christian name and surname would rhyme. How sad would that be? I'd be the butt of all jokes with the kids!

didoreth · 15/03/2011 20:18

Sorry I haven't had time to read the whole thread, but I've always thought the adoption of Ms by feminists was a massive mistake.

I've always thought that Mrs., a contraction of Mistress, is the correct title for an adult female, and the female equivalent of Mr. At some time in the past 'adult' got misclassified as 'married'. Its far more subversive for all feminists (or any other women who find this whole Ms/Miss/Mrs thing as irritatingas I do) to call ourselves Mrs, because if enough women did, then soon noone would know not only who was married and who wasn't, but also wouldn't be able to draw any conclusions about our political opinions.

I've been a Mrs all my adult life, and I've never been married.

Bunbaker · 15/03/2011 20:20

What do they do in France and Germany - Madame/Mademsoiselle and Frau/Fraulein?

dreamygirl · 15/03/2011 20:50

Can't speak for Germany Bunbaker but as I understand it Madame is a term of respect for French women so it's used from early 20s-ish. When I lived there, I worked in a school and all the female staff were Madame to their face and Madame surname when referred to in conversation, regardless of their marital status. There used to be an advert for hair colour and it showed a shop assistant going up to a woman with her back to him and calling her Mademoiselle, then apologising and correcting himself to Madame when he saw her face (obviously her lustrous hair had made her look like a teenager!!).

frgr · 15/03/2011 20:54

yes Bunbaker, as dreamygirl has mentioned, the change between titles for women isn't linked to marital status, it was more an age thing

just like in the UK, boys went from master to mister on age.

it's only for women in the UK who were "allowed" to gain the more respectful title when they managed to find a man to legally attach themselves too

except that in more enlightened cultures (in some ways) on mainland Europe, they don't generally use Miss/Mrs equivalents now, mostly I've only ever dealt ith EU colleauges who were called Mrs (all of them, inc. one of the fairly young uni grad i work with in berlin - i've never asked but she must be only in her early 20s - all documentation refers to her as Frau - NOT Fraulein)

frgr · 15/03/2011 20:54

the change between titles for women isn't linked to marital status in other countries - forgot that bit!

faxittome · 15/03/2011 20:56

This is slightly off topic, but when my father tried to take his title off his bank cards etc, so he would just be John Smith, the bank told him that he wasn't allowed to as they needed some indication of his gender for security reasons. He pointed out that the title he was trying to remove, which he had used for years, was Professor, which did not indicate his gender. The bank disagreed and told him that it proved he was a man Shock.

faxittome · 15/03/2011 21:25

Did I just kill this thread!? Grin

dreamygirl · 15/03/2011 21:26

We're all stunned and baffled into silence faxittome!

prettybird · 15/03/2011 21:33
Confused

That's just takes the biscuit for institutional sexism faxittome Shock!

Charlene1 · 15/03/2011 21:41

I have used Ms since I was at Uni - I was a Miss before, but when I graduated, we were told that a graduate who is single can use Ms instead, or any female over 18. And then I went to open a student account at a bank and they also said that because I was a single graduate aged over 25 they use that as a default title - I loved sounding mysterious and more "grown up", so adopted it. However, I got my provisional driving licence when I was 17, but have never got round to passing my test (!), so it still says Miss and I don't think they will change it to Ms unless I pay for a deed poll, as I don't have anything "legal" from a solicitor or a marriage certificate to change it! If I ever have driving lessons, it will have the wrong title on which I will not be happy about!!
Tax office calls me Ms on records so how more legal can you get?? Don't see why I need to pay to make it official for a licence!!
I do get letters addressed to Mr myname if I don't choose a title or it is junk mail - if I get Mrs on it - I go mad and ring them up, or email them to correct it.
DP's relations refer to him as my husband and I get addressed as Mrs DP's surname on xmas cards - I always say "oh thanks - but I don't remember getting married!!" but they still do it. Doctor/Dentist receptionist's/hospital staff insist on calling me "Mrs mysurname" which I take great offence to, especially when I correct them and they then look down their nose at me and do it even more. I do get stroppy sometimes and say "do NOT call me Mrs, I am NOT a Mrs!" I find it rude that they assume I am a Mrs, or don't bother to read forms/screens with my name on etc. I've corrected teachers at the kid's school as well - DP gets embarrassed but I stand my ground and won't put up with being addressed wrongly, or being classed as married just because I have kids! I have complained to Tchibo once about their website not having a Ms option and told them I wouldn't shop with them - they refuse to add it in so obviously don't care about customers! Ideally I would buy a title and be called "Countess" myname - just to be awkward and see how I am addressed then! Grin

WhoKnowsWhereTheTimeGoes · 15/03/2011 21:41

That's reminded me, when I opened my first bank account aged about 18 I asked to just have my name on my cheques and no title, they agreed, and they have been that way ever since (25+ years later). There is a Miss on the corresponding debit card and Ms on the bank statement. Not sure what to read into that, but I remember being very pleased with my no title chequebook.

That's outrageous that they thought a Prof could only be a man.

BonzoDooDah · 15/03/2011 21:48

O.M.G. faxitotome Shock when the hell was that?? DO say it was back in the 50s!

I've used Ms all my life (since I could decide rationally), unmarried and married until I could change to Dr and banish all the ambiguity Grin Even as a child I thought it was unfair that men didn't disclose their marital status in ther name but women usually did.

As a student in the 80s I went to a police station to report my bag stolen. When I told them my tile was Ms the bloke shouted through to the back "HEY!! I've got a Ms here ... never seen one of these before!!!" Blush

ullainga · 15/03/2011 21:50

In most countries I know, the equivalent of Miss is only used for young girls and adult women are Mrs, no matter if they actually have a marriage certificate or not. Very reasonable.

As for banks, I have had bank cards from hmm, at least 6-7 different countries and none of them have had any titles, just my name.

am Shock at faxittome's post though..

frgr · 15/03/2011 21:51

Charlene, I'm pretty sure I could get that changed without paying a fee to amend it. I've had to grapple with more than one institution on this point - fair do's if I've made a mistake, but I've found some people place invisible barriers to amending their assumptions in the first place.

When DH and I got married, we both kept our names.

And when Ineeded an account to pay wedding cheques into (I basically just opened an account in the name of Ms MarriedName as well as wanting to keep my normal maiden/married name of Ms MaidenName)... the bank teller tried to say it was illegal. "Oh?" I asked. "Do you mean against bank policy, to have 2 accounts in different names?" ... "No", he said, a concerned look on his face, "it's illegal to do that, it's to do with money laundering."

I then had to explain to him that a woman is under no legal obligation to change her name on marriage, I required the two accounts for logical reasons which I'd explained, and it wasn't illegal. nor was it against the bank's policy as far as I was aware, since my sister had recently done the exact same thing in the exact same home branch of natwest as I wanted to do.

I then had to speak to the manager, a woman who was perfectly polite and sorted it for me no problem. She agreed to educate her bank teller on what and wasn't "illegal", and what the bank's official policy on account names was.

I still remember that little incident, and his look of concer as if I was trying to do something dodgey! And that was about 13 or 14 years ago now!