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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not want a 'title'

437 replies

GirlWithTheMouseyHair · 14/03/2011 12:51

I'm married but hate it on forms or anything really (especially professionally) where I have to state a title. I don't like the way I'm judged and perceived when I say Mrs (misogynistic industry and I'm quite young) but I'm not a Miss and again feel judged and decide upon when I put Ms.

Does anyone else get like this? Why can't the title field be optional?

Sorry this isn't a more interesting thread than the title suggests - I ought to be contemplating a damehood really!

OP posts:
Invisiblesoul · 15/03/2011 18:14

Well, life isn't Equal. I quite like that men and women are treated differently to a certain extent, and it does have it's advantages. I don't want to be treated the same as my male counterparts. Women are different to men. I'm proud to be married as it is an acheivment. I work hard to compromise and be a better person in my marriage and so does my husband. Were a team. Our surname is our team name and I wouldn't be called anything else

AnnieLobeseder · 15/03/2011 18:22

I use Ms - I absolutely refuse to have my status as a woman defined by my state of attachment to a man. Why do men get to take the adult title on reaching 18, but women don't get to be regarded as proper adults until they marry?

Screw the Ms as a divorcee, very few people see it that way these days, it's much more often used as a marital-status-neutral terms of address for women.

And I am much looking forward to being a Dr, and having great fun correcting everyone who will assume we're Dr and Mrs Lobeseder, that we are in fact Dr and Mr Lobeseder. Grin

Original poster
GirlWithTheMouseyHair · 15/03/2011 18:23

Am quite surprised by the number of judgypants being pulled on during this thread - having no respect for friends who either call themselves Mrs OR Ms??

Maybe we just need a whole new title with no negative connotations and which doesn't reveal your marital status.

I love my husband and love being married to him. We married young and talked about him taking my name or the other way round (went with him because he's the last male in his family and I have several who would in theory carry on my family name), but now I'm quite sad I didn't keep my name professionally at least, or create a new surname with him. Anyway, whether I like being married or not, I don't think it's anyone else's business whether or not I am. If I was in a long-term cohabiting relationship but not married I would also not want to proclaim myself as Miss because being married is a big part of my life but it isn't my whole life.

The point is men don't have to declare it so face no judgement either way, women do and most will face judgement whatever name they choose (as has been proven on this thread)

OP posts:
JessinAvalon · 15/03/2011 18:29

I know plenty of women who are divorced who still call themselves 'Mrs Hisname'. So to me, the title Mrs doesn't signify much anyway.

So it seems the view of some on here is:

For men:
Dr = Neutral title signifying educational achievement
Mr = Neutral title

For women:
Dr = Neutral title signifying educational achievement
Mrs = Married title indicating success/achievement in maintaing a relationship with a man
Ms = Neutral title/militant feminist (negative connotations)
Miss = Unmarried woman who hasn't yet achieved the success of getting married

Have I woken up in 1953?

dreamygirl · 15/03/2011 18:32

Awful lot of people discussing taking new names at marriage when I think I remember the OP saying that wasn't an issue for her (taken me a while to read all 10 pages but I think early on that's what she said). OP - to answer your question, YANBU, I can understand that there are professional situations where being a Mrs or a Ms attracts certain prejudices and it must be difficult to know how to proceed when you can't get past the title question :)

But honestly, the number of people on this thread who've said things like they "can't stand" women who take their DH's surname or call themselves Mrs, etc. As if it's any of your business! Personally I was happy to take DH's name and I like being Mrs, it causes me no professional problems and is the way we've chosen to identify ourselves as a family unit. It was our choice but I appreciate that other people don't all make the same choices as I have and I don't deride and belittle their decisions in the way that mine have been on this thread (not personally, obviously, but along with anyone who has made the same choice as me). As for being "proud" to be married, I think you can be in the sense of "taking pride in" something you do in your life - I take pride in my marriage, the way I raise our DCs, my work, the things I do for hobbies, etc. Why not?

Original poster
GirlWithTheMouseyHair · 15/03/2011 18:38

well said dreamygirl although I would go against those who've said their biggest achievement is getting married.

jessie I started the thread because of negative connotations in my industry of being declared Mrs as well as Ms. Most women are referred to as Miss, people get a bit flumouxed when you say Ms and put you down as Miss anyway

OP posts:
JessinAvalon · 15/03/2011 18:38

Dreamygirl - I wouldn't have an issue if men did the same.

But there is no title in which men can announce their pride in marrying a woman.

It seems so antiquated to me that women still announce in their title in terms of their relationship to a man and men don't and never have.

Perhaps we need to introduce a new title for men that indicates their marital status?

JessinAvalon · 15/03/2011 18:40

Cross posted there, Girlwiththemouseyhair.

thomasbodley · 15/03/2011 18:41

I'm proud to be married as it is an acheivment. I work hard to compromise and be a better person in my marriage and so does my husband. Were a team. Our surname is our team name and I wouldn't be called anything else

I laugh very hard when smug marrieds get divorced.

It's not much of a marriage if you're having to work so hard, love. And if staying marriage is your idea of an achievement, you need some to acquire some more useful ones just in case your husband decides he fancies a team transfer.

thomasbodley · 15/03/2011 18:42

Pffft, predictive text is not my friend.

JessinAvalon · 15/03/2011 18:44

If men were so proud to be married, wouldn't they want to introduce a title that indicates this to other people? Women are keen to announce it. We should let men do the same.

Original poster
GirlWithTheMouseyHair · 15/03/2011 18:45

Jess, I agree with your comments re dreamygirl but appreciate the fact she's stood up against the numpties who are totally judging others on what title they use

As previously mentioned, the german/french tradition seems the "fairest"

OP posts:
JessinAvalon · 15/03/2011 18:50

Yes, and that's the one I would advocate too. That's all I said from the beginning.

I have stood up for my views on this thread too and been attacked for it!

thomasbodley · 15/03/2011 18:53

Jess Some "women are keen to announce it."

As it happens, I'm very happily married. I still have my own name. Being happily married has sweet FA to do with sharing a surname. I couldn't care less whether women keep or change surnames, titles, property - what with it being 2011 and all.

I'm afraid I'm still laughing at "our surname is our team name." If ever someone was tempting the karmic boomerang...

Original poster
GirlWithTheMouseyHair · 15/03/2011 19:00

Jess - sorry, I wasn't meaning it as an attack, was agreeing with you

OP posts:
dreamygirl · 15/03/2011 19:08

Thanks, GirlWithTheMouseyHair, that was my point really, that nobody has the right to criticise people just because they decide to go with the Mrs thing (or the name-changing thing), we all have our own choices. Otherwise we've just rejected one set of "rules" for women and imposed a new set.

But Jess perhaps we should investigate new titles, or abolishing titles, if they are so confusing to some and offensive to others!!

Invisiblesoul · 15/03/2011 19:17

1stly, I'm not your love. You don't know me. I'm a name on a computer screen with an opinion you don't agree with. Your reaction means I've touched a nerve. I'm sorry your so insecure in your marriage that you need me to explain mine. We will not divorce. 100%. He cheated. So did I. We worked through it and it was the best thing we ever did. Infact, I will go as far as saying it was good for our marriage. Yes we argue and of course life will throw obsticals at us, but as we are a TEAM we will find a way to work through it. In terms of my acheivments. Most people would guess I'm most proud of some of my others. Both personally and professionally. But my marriage is still the one i feel proudest of. We went through hell. But we fixed it. We always will.

JessinAvalon · 15/03/2011 19:21

@Girlwiththemouseyhair-thanks for the apology. Didn't think you were attacking me but thanks for saying sorry anyway.

@Dreamygirl-I was being tongue in cheek. We do have master/mister but 'master' for anyone aged over about 6 has pretty much died out now. Happy to resurrect it if it will result in equality of titles between the sexes!

JessinAvalon · 15/03/2011 19:24

I do feel attacked for expressing my views on the use of Mrs though and yet no-one has been criticised for snide remarks about people who reject Mrs/Miss that I recall.

Bunbaker · 15/03/2011 19:28

"I am a Mrs and have no problem with it as a title. Doesn't matter a jot to me."

Me neither. I guess it would be easier if it was Ms for all females, but we have hundreds of years of tradition to overwrite.

Invisiblesoul · 15/03/2011 19:28

Jessinavalon. I agree with you.

thomasbodley · 15/03/2011 19:31

"I'm sorry your so insecure in your marriage that you need me to explain mine".

Erm, I'm not remotely insecure in my marriage. It's wonderful actually, which is what I suspect you find so irksome.

I just feel incredibly sorry for you that you seem to think marriage is somehow a superior state that you get to be "proud" of. It isn't, as the 1 in 2.75 divorce rate confirms.

thomasbodley · 15/03/2011 19:33

Agree with Jess too. I have never asked women who use their married names why they changed.

I've lost count of the number of times married women have asked me why I haven't.

Er, because I don't care?

mumeeee · 15/03/2011 19:36

I actualy hate Ms, It seems neither hewre or there to me.

Invisiblesoul · 15/03/2011 19:39

Erm, I'm not remotely insecure in my marriage. It's wonderful actually, which is what I suspect you find so irksome.

That's just what I said to you re-hashed?!! Unintelligent!

I was talking about MY marriage. I'm proud of my marriage and How we overcome problems together. that's why I'm proud to be mrs. Don't give a toss about anyone elses or divorce statistics. I beleive that since I have been married our relationship is "superior" and I beleive in 5,10,15 years I will be even prouder. Op was asking opinions and that's mine. Just coz it's different to yours doesn't make it wrong. Your the one acting aggressively and trying to belittle my opinion. You seem spoilt.