...to think that the most interesting adults I know were wild and untameable as children?

[duchesse]

I fact I can't think of a single interesting adult I know who was good, sweet, obedient, well-mannered, helpful and selfless as a child.

AIBU to think that maybe it's unreasonable to expect children to be all these things? I mean, sure, I expect them to work towards being good as they get older (in fact DS who was WILD!! is almost human now at 17.5), but I welcome a slightly wild streak in my children- I think it's a sign of individuality.

To me, being well-mannered and selfless lends one to having the type of life that leads to be an interesting person. IME. Were and are Nelson Mandela, Desmond Tutu, Ghandi, Mother Teresa and Aung San Suu Kyi wild and selfish and unhelpful? Anything but interesting adults if you ask me.

Anything but dull I think you mean Expat!

Ah but he is wild-looking- his hair is so long and matted it has become a single dreadlock, he has a long straggly and smoke-stained beard from smoking roll-ups all the time. But considering his lack of attention to personal hygiene (he washes about 2-3 times a year) he is remarkably fit and healthy and could easily walk 40 miles a day. In fact he thinks nothing of walking 8 miles into town from here to pick up fag ends at bus stops to make new ciggies, or 7 miles in the other direction to dive into bins round the back of supermarkets. He needs to walk. He certainly doesn't need to do it to eat while he's here cos he gets 3 square meals a day here, but he needs to keep moving he says, or he seizes up.

Oh. Good point.

Yes, sorry, Ninky. I'm blasting music in my headphones, too.

Oh and people give him clothes and shoes all the time so he generally has very good footwear. I think that he has the edge over other tramps by virtue of being so sociable- he never asks for anything but hot water for his coffee, yet people end up giving him all sorts of things. He told me that he'll be walking along the road when a car will screech to a halt and the driver will hand him a tenner. He can cope with a tenner but no more as he tends to spend it on drink. No reason to doubt it when he tells it as he's perfectly happy to also tell me about the times he's arrested for being drunk and disorderly and held in the cells overnight after getting hold of some cash. The last time that happened he had to leave the shopping trolley he was pushing at the time behind and the police gave him a lift back to it in the morning. Shortly after that he threw away most of the things he'd collected and went back to as single rucksack.

All that is all well and good but ultimately what we need to remember and focus upon is that Fellatio agrees with me

Mwahahahaha...

As Colin has done so well perhaps there should be tramp vocational courses.

However perhaps we should not forget that Colins success as a tramp seems to derive at least in part from his ability to be charming, polite, well mannered, socially appropriate........ Would Colin be half so charming with black feet from shoe refusal and sleeping under a tarp in our back gardens?

I think Colin rather disproved your point duchesse. He is the tamest tramp I ever heard of and his calm reason is much of what you praise in him.

I'm curious if you would love your son to model his behaviour on colin the tramp? And never have more than a tenner to his name for fear of his crippling addictions?

DS goes camping and plays in woods. If he was wild and untameable I wouldn't let him, because he might damage the environment or put someone else in danger.

hmm. Many of the ''interesting'' adults i know who fit your model, these days are slightly unhinged, have mental health issues, struggle with the banalities of real life (like paying bills, being functional, earning a regular income, keeping themselves and their children clean and fed regularly) or are still taking drugs in their 40s. They are knobbers. With a sense of entitlement. ''to be free and express themselves without the confines of social norms....'' while happily borrowing cash from all and sundry.
I speak as one who was a former hippy wild child by the way. But I grew up.

My ds1 was untameable when he was younger. We worked incredibly hard over the years to tame him, and he's now 12 and is virtually normal

He's much more interesting and likeable now that he's not so bad, and is also less egotistical and self-centered. He took MIL a bunch of flowers to her flat yesterday, bought with his own pocket money

I know which type of person I'd rather have. Interesting or not, wild people are just egotistical and annoying and many of them are plain unkind to others from what I've seen over the years.

Oh I completely disagree.

At a school reunion, it was the quiet, geeky kids, who went on to have the most interesting lives, in my opinion. One was a wildlife photographer, traveling the world. Another became a rocket scientist and lives in South America at a research center. One is a novelist. A couple of the 'wild' types went on to work in very competitive regional businesses and did well. But they are boring in my opinion. Some of the 'wild' kids were actually from difficult home situations and found their feet when they left home.

I guess it depends on what you find 'exciting' in an adult.

Were you boring as a child and have grown into a boring person? Is your child wild and you are looking for ways to understand?

Me thinks you have a hidden agenda and a need to believe.

oi, my BIL is called Colin, and yes he does look like a Colin, in fact I have a piccy of him on me profile thingy

Nah, that's just what the parents of naughty children like to think

i don't think you can generalise. But it's an interesting point; the qualities we tend to frown upon in our children aren't necessarily 'bad' or unhelpful.

If they can channel them the right way it can open doors for them that others might not even know where there, iyswim? I'm reading a self help book called 'The rules of Parenting' at the moment and it's actually quite insightful when it comes to this very point...

banana