...to think that the most interesting adults I know were wild and untameable as children?

[duchesse]

I fact I can't think of a single interesting adult I know who was good, sweet, obedient, well-mannered, helpful and selfless as a child.

AIBU to think that maybe it's unreasonable to expect children to be all these things? I mean, sure, I expect them to work towards being good as they get older (in fact DS who was WILD!! is almost human now at 17.5), but I welcome a slightly wild streak in my children- I think it's a sign of individuality.

Dh is an interesting adult and was a wild child.

His intersting qualities sometimes struggle to manifest themselves because of the self-obsessed qualities which led to his adolescent wildness.

In other words, he is interesting inspite of being wild, not because of it.

YABU - I see no correlation with anybody I know to back up your theory! Can't help wondering if you're trying to justify your children's 'bad' behaviour

Well I don't doubt there are plenty of people in prison who have undiagnosed ADHD, but I think the thing they probably most have in common is a history of poor and chaotic parenting. And if they are unlucky enough to have both, then they are fucked.

Maryz it is sad and scary, isn't it? Especially when you hear judgmental and inaccurate comments from someone like FellatioNelson.

inaccurate how exactly?

If I am mistaken, then I apologise, but your post appeared to me to be drawing a link between people in prison with undiagnosed ADHD and poor/chaotic parenting

No Scared unfortunate timing - I meant it exactly as Maryz said!

I am sorry then FellatioNelson

Well i agree with Fellatio.

I think that there must be many people in prison from all walks of life who had poor parenting and possibly undiagnosed ADHD.

Particularly adults in prison who grew up before ADHD was properly diagnosed.

I knew of no one with ADHD until fairly recently.

But that's exactly what i meant...
Undiagnosed people in prison who have ADHD.

But poor parenting also hugely contributes to bad behaviour.
I know children who go to school tired because they don't go to bed at a reasonable time and then can't learn at school and are disruptive.
I also knew a Mum who would send her 'naughty' ds to bed at night with no dinner AND no breakfast in the morning.
The DS was a thorough PITA but it wasn't his fault if he was hungry.
He has been in prison for drug stuff and he's 21.

The thing is though, with those children who don't go to bed at a reasonable time, it isn't necessarily that the parents let them stay up too late (although I know that it can be this), but children with ADHD (untreated) cannot sleep through the night like other children can, they usually either can't get to sleep until the early hours, or are up and active at something like 3am. On the face of it, it looks like the parents should send them to bed earlier, but they can't sleep when they do go to bed.

I don't know if that is a similar thing with children with ASD - I have no experience of that.

Of course it is sometimes because the child can't sleep because of adhd or asd.
Ds2 had huge sleep issue for years

But sometimes it is because of crap parenting.

no - it's a salve for those who have "wild and untameable" AKA pain in the ass children

Oh, God, OP. I just bet your ds is called Merlin, isn't he?

A very dear friend of mine who is lovely in every way had three children who would have been ahem diplomatically be described as wild and untameable. She was exactly the kind of mother who was very much inot freedom of expression, ono-conformity to 'pointless' rules etc. They were rather over-indlulged free-spirits, (for that read loud, rude, lacked respect for other people's property or feelings) and had an alarming habit of speaking rather precociously out of turn to adults, and being a bit bossy and a bit contemptuous of other children they considered less hip and cool than themselves. This was from primary school age.

Bedtimes were always a bit of a moveable feast, there were precious few rules. They are all adults now - one of them is just lovely and normal, but the other two have struggled socially throughout senior school and university, (culminating in quite serious depression with one of them, due to being a loner at school, and not through choice I don't think.)

Although I'm really fond of them both and I think they have matured and become nice functional adults, I do think that had they had a few more boundaries as children they would not have found it so hard to make friends as they would have had greater empathy and tolerance. People will only tolerate bad behaviour for so long - eventually when they are old enough to choose who to keep and who to drop in their lives, 'wild untameable' types will find they are just too high maintenance or obnoxious for most people's tastes. You reap what you sow.

It doesnt always follow suit. My older 2 children are 20 and 22 and the older one is serious and always has been, but a bit of a handful as a child,. Now he is still head strong but a really kind chap.
DD was a darling sweetheart, then a teen terror from hell and now she is fun loving, a right little Clubber but nice. 10 yr olds DS bit of a handful, with a temper, but should turn out a normal adult,(ha ha) I guess.

Its so true though...some adults who are not boring and have real personalities were right little terrors as kids.

OMG seeker, that's uncanny!

No seriously, that is my rather spirited 6yo nephew's name. pmsl laughing now.

Everybody who knows us tells me that my children are delightful and well-behaved and polite. But it has taken a lot of time to achieve with DS and I don't feel we're quite there yet. For quite a lot of his childhood he would certainly have badly-behaved and/or rude to most of you, but certainly NOT for want of parenting or trying on our part.

Our second child was been extremely easy from the beginning, third has been a bit trickier but getting better faster than her brother and the fourth so far is a dream. So, MN judges, parenting or personality?