...to think that the most interesting adults I know were wild and untameable as children?

[duchesse]

I fact I can't think of a single interesting adult I know who was good, sweet, obedient, well-mannered, helpful and selfless as a child.

AIBU to think that maybe it's unreasonable to expect children to be all these things? I mean, sure, I expect them to work towards being good as they get older (in fact DS who was WILD!! is almost human now at 17.5), but I welcome a slightly wild streak in my children- I think it's a sign of individuality.

In my experience, "wild and untamable" children do not make the best adults.

I do agree that too strict an upbringing is not ideal either. I was a "seen and not heard" child and my mother bitterly regrets that now. She thought she was doing the right thing, but now sees me having so much fun with my children, encouraging them, taking them seriously as people, and she wishes she had done the same with me. I wish she had too.

Totally disagree!
One person's wild and untameable is society's selfish and unsociable.

I think that "odd" children can become highly interesting adults though.

YABU, and it's not true. Untameable and untamed are completely different, by the way.

The only 'untamed' child I knew (parents didn't expect him to conform to society's norms, no 'rules' at home etc) become a completely disfunctional adult. He had eating disorders, used and dealt drugs, went to prison and is now back living with his parents. He isn't interesting.

Oh yes, a touch of quiet eccentricity is wonderful.

*dysfuntional, I meant.

I LOVE quiet eccentricity. Performed eccentricity is utterly irritating.

I absolutely agree Wendy - one of my favourite childhood memories is going to stay with my grandma in rural Scotland, aged about 10, and wanting to go swimming in the sea loch across the road (it was October).

My grandma just said "on you go" and went into the house to run a hot bath. Of course we were only in the water for 30 seconds and the bath was ready by the time we got back to the house. We never asked again .

Ditto wanting to sleep outside on our bracken beds we'd made that day. "Fine, on you go". Back inside after an hour when the midges came out.

She was a fun gran and a big believer in letting children do anything they liked as long as it wasn't inconveniencing other people - she'd have come down on us like a ton of bricks if we'd gone into the neighbour's garden for example.

Depends what you mean by 'interesting'. If by intersting you mean challenging, egotistical and difficult to get along with, then yes, you are probably right.

I'm sure there is an element of truth in what you are saying but I find 'wild untamable' children (and adults) rather obnoxious tiresome pains in the arse as a rule.

I think there are certain qualities that are seen as undesirable traits in children, (the inability to take no for an answer for example) and yet the very same qualities can manifest themselves as quite useful traits in adults. (so the inability to take no for an answer becomes the ability to problem solve creatively and not take knock-backs to heart = successful entrepreneur.)

But I don't buy the 'my son can't help climbing on your furniture and being spectacularly loud, rude and attention seeking because he is a tortured artistic soul who is bursting to express himself and he needs to step outside the boundaries that lesser mortals impose on him' load of old shit.

This brings to mind one fo the first threads I ever encountered on MN when a poster said with a perfectly straight face that she saw no good reason to insist that her children said please and thank you to others, that it was tantamount to abuse for force them, and they would 'pick it up' as they got older.

No they won't. They'll just be universally detested, in adulthood as well as childhood, no matter how brilliant and go-getting they turn out to be.

What does 'interesting' mean?

expat- do you know any tramps? We do. The one we know best is very interesting and has led a fascinating life. I'd rather spend any evening with him than at any dinner parties with boring fuckers talking about mortgage rates. Colin ("our" tramp) is on the roads (note- not "on the streets") by choice and is very happy.

That's not to say that that's what I'd want for DS, but it's hardly the worst thing in the world to be. Homicidal drugs baron would be way worse.

By "interesting" for future reference I mean having interesting and varied opinions, being open to the outside world and tolerant of differences.

I'm really wacky, me. Like totally mad.

My children are wild and untameable.

Sorry, you have a tramp? Shit, I thought I was keeping up by getting a steam-mop

It's not like there's 'interesting' (in the way Duchesse means) and then there's 'dull as fuck pen-pushing nobodies' - luckily people are far more complex than that.
Though as I get older I realise there are in fact large groups of people I'm not destined to find interesting - I wonder what they were like as children? Probably quite varied!

Yes, I do know and have known tramps.

Some who were interesting, others who were not.

And?

But to me interested in this way "varied opinions, being open to the outside world and tolerant of differences." does not seem to fit with your OP stating that they were NOT "good, sweet, obedient, well-mannered, helpful and selfless as a child."

Whereas I tend to think well mannered, selfless and helpful people are quite likely to be tolerant of other differences and open to the world, because they want to get along with everyone, and be, effectively, good and useful to everyone.

So I'm still confused! Either your children are all of the things you said leads to boring adults and also tolerant and open to the world which is fine, but not anything remarkable.

Or they are wild and disobedient and selfish in which case I have no idea how you expect them to grow up to be tolerant and varied in their opinions since?

• Genuine question. Feel like what you said in your OP and what you meant are possibly not the same?

"I mean having interesting and varied opinions, being open to the outside world and tolerant of differences"

Oh in that case I don't agree at all. The ones who grow up to be like that are the ones with the most 'interesting' parents and friends. That makes the biggest difference IME. 'Untameable' children frequently end up being a PITA as an adult.

I think geeky kids tend out to be more interesting and lead more interesting lives. They are usually fairly well behaved, just not very sociable. Prisons are full of adults who were wilful kids who bunked off school and had no respect for authority.
I think you should encourage your kids to be independant and not be a sheep, but also that often you need to accept authority to get on in life and need to take a long term approach to some things.

I once worked in a methadone clinic, but we were taught not to refer to our clients as 'our tramp'.

oh expat!

I went for a tramp in the woods once. He was not amused.

Fucking hell Duchesse even I can't beat a pet tramp !

I went to a school reunion a few months ago and found that the most interesting people were actually those that had been regarded as 'nerdy' types at school. In fact, a couple had really blossomed into very interesting people with fascinating careers.

And what the hell is wrong with wanting your kids to be ' well-mannered, helpful and selfless'?

YABU

My bro was the wildest child imaginable but he is very staid now. My mum thinks he "got it out of his system" at an early age!