...to think that the most interesting adults I know were wild and untameable as children?

[duchesse]

I fact I can't think of a single interesting adult I know who was good, sweet, obedient, well-mannered, helpful and selfless as a child.

AIBU to think that maybe it's unreasonable to expect children to be all these things? I mean, sure, I expect them to work towards being good as they get older (in fact DS who was WILD!! is almost human now at 17.5), but I welcome a slightly wild streak in my children- I think it's a sign of individuality.

I don't know. You could ask Colin?

It is always a combination of factors, parenting, personality and other things.
Ds1 had to go to three different schools in a year - that had an effect.

Those of us who have deeply challenging children may love some of their quirks, some of their spirit.of course we should.

But it is far better for a child to understand and be able to move and function in the world according to social norms even if they then find interesting and quirky ways to operate outside them.

It's bitter experience, duchesse - bitter experience!

OH was apparently a silent, good little boy. Hardly spoke to people around him. He now works a few thousands of miles away doing stuff which would make James Bond proud.

YA talking a load of tosh.

I wholly agree, Pag. People, bar the very wealthy, have to live in society. That is how it is.

Not true, op.

And a very unfair comment towards the many children I know who behave themselves beautifully, are very polite but who have a delicious enthusiasm or quirkiness or creativity or logic which has the potential to make them very interesting adults.

There are also wild children who have a very appealing personality, of course.

But being wild does not in itself make someone an interesting individual. Far from it.

Flingon

"I was an eldest child but not so obedient and sweet, and as an adult I'm interesting and responsible, but short-tempered, argumentative and lack discipline and motivation. I struggle to be hardworking (although that's partly due to a rebellion against being forced to work so hard until uni), and I know that I can be selfish, so I make a real effort to avoid that."

My god you sound like me! (little brother sounds a bit like my little sister too...)

Yes, it struck a chord with me too!

The 'freaks and geeks' from my school (I'm part of the latter group and proud) that I'm still in touch with definitely have the most unusual and (I think) interesting jobs:

Human Genome researcher
Pop star
Pop producer
Stand up comedian
Professor
Script writer
Novel writer
Environmentalist

They weren't 'wild' or anything though. I remember them being really really well behaved. Just quietly ploughing their own furrow and either not caring about or not able to 'fit in'. Being an individual is about much more than 'standing out'.

DH works with artists and the 'wild' ones are always the biggest pita challenges to get anything creatively good out of.

I agree with pagwatch .

We all agree with Pagwatch. I've been studiously trying to avoid saying 'I agree with Pagwatch' all day on the thread.

I don't think he should be called Colin. It doesn't have a romantic old school Tramp ring about it.

I like children who are generally kind, considerate and well-behaved but who are very expressive and have lots of skills. They tend to become interesting adults because they are the ones who have the ability to seize the experiences that come their way in life and use them to their full potential.

Ha ha.

And in I breeze at 19.49 and wrrrreck it. Sorry .

re endlessly resourceful- Nah, bin diving round the back of pubs and supermarkets is what I meant. He once brought me as a gift some very gamey rabbits he'd found in a pub bin.

And sorry, folks, but his name is actually Colin. What would you prefer him to be called? What's a good tramp name?

I wish we could have a tramps like Colin rather than Tweaker, HipHopGirl, DeadDealer (I call him that now because he was later murdered) and Jakey (Scottish slang for a drunk, which is what he was).

I'm a relatively strict parent, my children are quite scheduled (this is a flat with no garden or outdoor space to play) because I don't want them to end up like me, tbh, in a place like this. In fact, they are learning two other languages, French and Spanish, so they will hopefully not live here at all. This place is poisoned by antiquity and a lack of hope, which is tragic as it's so naturally beautiful. But that is the way of the world and they are blessed and taught to recognise that, to know there is no such thing as fairness that is why there is an afterlife and that the universe is great.

One must live in society, and the joy we feel from loving others can only be felt when you learn a least a modicum of selflessness (which strangely enough can be quite selfish in motive).

I see the way the world is going, we feel it all the time, and it's one in which if you don't work, unless you're very wealthy, you may well starve. To work, you must have some degree of being able to operate in society and with others.

It's all well and good being 'wild' and individuality is the source of invention often enough, but mine will have to temper this with putting food in their mouths.

I dunno - Archibald? Herbert? Albert? Colin sounds like he's the same age as me, and a proper tramp should be old and grizzly.

Me too DandyLioness, it pleases me too. Like Norman. Norman would please me (ooh err missus) too in these circumstances, or Brian.

I am and I was (interesting, wild, in that order).

We could be friends duchesse, as you like my type (I would like you for having good taste). We'll leave the "sweeping generalisations" crowd to pontificate - we know it's true (or did you end up going over to the pagwatch side? Sorry, I'm too interesting, still a bit wild, to read the whole thread)

I'm concerned that someone who could be merely my age has slipped into full-blown trampdom. It's a worry. When I was little tramps always looked about a hundred. With stinky matted hair and string round their trousers. And BLACK feet poking out of flappy shoes. Aaah. Those were the days