Quick Advice Please! Should be in Brave Babes but I'm in a hurry and really upset

[JaneS]

So, I am an alcoholic and have been 'sober' for just over a month now. Or so I thought.

I was buying de-alcoholized wine, which is 0.5%. I'm aware I was using it as a crutch but thought it was quite sensible.

My problem is with my DH. He can be lovely, but he has a big problem with the way I want to stop drinking. In the past when I've tried to stop, he's been very sure that what I should do is to cut down, stop for a few days and then reward myself with a glass or two - drinking moderately, basically. This does not work for me at all. I know it's my job and nothing to do with him, but we've had words over it.

The problem now is I was feeling really happy and we'd gone to do the weekly shop. There's only one place that does decent quality de-alcoholized wine, so I started stocking up, putting 8 or so bottles in my trolley. DH then said this was bad and I shouldn't start drinking a bottle or two of this a day. I am aware that two bottles (or even one, which is what I'm tending to get through) adds up to an appreciable amount of alcohol. But I don't think it is remotely likely to get me drunk, and that seemed the important thing to me.

I'm really upset - I was quite literally shaking on the way home. I just feel as if no matter what I do, it's the wrong thing. I did say quietly to DH that I'd just managed a month and was proud of that, and he just said it was 'not good' to be using this as a substitute. I just feel rotten - I guess technically he is right that it's not a month with absolutely no alcohol, but it seems so contradictory of his previous view that I should drink moderately.

I don't know what to do, or if I should be upset? Please advise me, I don't know what to say to DH and he can see I'm upset.

He's just gone and rummaged through the bottles waiting to go for recycling - I don't know if he's counting them or what but I am really upset about this and I feel as if all my effort is going to waste.

Please advise.

hmm..how would you class heavy binge drinkers then??? (as I once was in my student days)

Dont they have an alcohol problem???

They may not be drinking vodka for breakfast (as sardine very eloquently points out) but they are still doing damage to their bodies and often it is not realised til it is too late....like people going into hospital with stomach ache and being told they have cirrhosis (sp?)

just had a quick look on here after LRD told us about it on the 'brave babes' thread - it is really interesting and incredibly helpful to read the view points of non alcoholics.

my dh has been nothing but supportive but i know that over the years he has disspaired of my drinking and worried endlessly over my health (of course it took a 'rock bottom' moment and an ultimatum from him to make me finally sit up and take notice)

i have been in aa and been sober now for just over 9 months - one thing i have realised is that there is no 'blue-print' for alcoholism, you cannot generalise over what makes one person an alkie and another just a heavy drinker, i now have about 12 numbers on my phone of middle age, middle class, often professional women, mothers and wives, who are sooo far removed from the drunk tramp on the bench its not true!

fabby, i can assure you that i would drink to get drunk, and so do many other alcoholics, in fact, isnt that the reason for drinking? (see!, alkie brain still fully functioning! ) many hundreds and thousands of people sort out their addiction without medical intervention, i am one of them!, its horses for courses!, we are all different, some of us have hit rock bottom long before liver damage/brain damage have set in, other never get there and drink themselves to death!

i have also come to the conclusion that however much you drink, if it worries you, then its a problem!, dosent matter if its one glass a week/month or a bottle of vodka over your cornflakes - if it worries you, it worries you iyswim?

sorry, have compleatly lost me thread! , i have no idea where this is going, just wanted to say thanks for the understanding responses to LRD, you cannot know what a help it can be to have someone tell you you are doing well!

fabby, that was really not a helpful thing to say. My DH has already done the 'you're not really an alcholic' speech.

Beca - no, of course you don't come across as judgmental. You seem very kind. I completely agree about pregnancy - this is why I am so very keen to kick this. It's a difficult subject for me, but basically I would love a baby but can't have one until I'm safe to do so.

I agree with you all that there are different kinds of alcoholism. I'm not typing this on a park bench. But it's a problem for me and really bad for my health.

There are as many different "types" of alcoholism as there are alcoholics IMHO.

fabby Its so easy to see all alcoholics as sad pathetic losers drinking cheap sherry on a park bench, but just not true. As with a lot of problems (gambling, eating issues etc) many people are "high functioning" whilst in the grip of their addiction...they got to work, take care of their appearance and socialise and no one guesses because they cope so well....for a time, of course.

LRD If you want a baby badly enough you will find the strength to stop drinking. I believe in you.

Thanks beca, that is very kind.

...oh, and if you are ttc then your dh needs to cut down/stop too.

And wear loose pants.

We're not trying atm, and he's not a big drinker anyway, .but thanks!

"I would love a baby but can't have one until I'm safe to do so. "

If I'm interpreting this correctly, and you think you aren't "safe" to not drink during pregnancy, then you are very wise and right to do this, and to be so admitably uncompromising.

Or am I being unfair, and you are just worried about the years after the baby is born/you stop breastfeeding....?

plu, I'm as sure as I can be that if I were pregnant I wouldn't drink, but I've been drinking a lot quite recently and it's better to get that well out of my system before ttc.

It's a moot point anyway, as DH is 24 and (understandably!) quite fancies leaving it a bit yet.

LRD - It's difficult to get tone across on the Internet, so if this sounds unduly harsh, then it isn't meant to be. Rather, it is meant to be firm. You are doing a sterling job of rationalising your drinking ... so much so that it's easy to go along on that ride with you.

Alcoholism persists in great part because people are so good at playing the denial game. Calculating units; telling yourself that your main priority is cutting down because of your health; focusing on your husband's reactions ... All of these are simply ways to kill time so that you don't have to face the full force of what you are up against. You are an alcoholic. That's it. Full stop. The next step is to find help to come to terms with this and to stop drinking. AA isn't for everyone, but I suspect that one of the reasons you don't want to go is because then you would have to admit to yourself that you are an alcoholic. De-alcoholised wine is the veil you are using to keep that idea at bay.

I come from a family of alcoholics and alcohol abusers; my husband is an alcoholic in recovery (I didn't know him when he was drinking); and I attended Al-Anon meetings, and set up a meeting in the area I live in. The single most effective thing that kept the drinkers in my life drinking were the promises they made to themselves and others; and the bargaining and justification.

I wish you all the very best. But please don't try to do it alone.

Fabby - Your comments about alcoholics are utter rubbish. Yes, many alcoholics can consume vast amounts of alcohol. However, the more overloaded your system becomes, the less tolerant you become, until one drink can make you pissed.

You don't sound harsh, but you do sound unduly sure it's your way or the high way, and I'm not convinced.

I don't think there's any evidence at all that I don't want to admit I'm an alcoholic. Might you be projecting? I'm only asking because I'm a bit bewildered by that statement in your post.

I'm guessing you're maybe of a similar school of thought to the poster who, admirably, is so determined that she and her husband must never be tempted to drink that she's given up on vinegar. I really do have great respect for such a stance, but also think it is extreme and, for me at least, not helpful.

I do think I need to work out the psychological implications of what I'm doing, and this is very important. But I don't honestly think that I'm in denial about my alcoholism.

(projecting from your family's experiences, not your own, obviously ... sorry, that didn't make sense in my post above)

Little red further to what conflu has said my mum has admitted she's an alcoholic but she still hasn't stopped drinking. If she really truly believed she had a problem I think she would seek help and try to stop completely. She hasn't and I believe she still has a certain amount of denial. I think you may be in this stage too and I really don't want you to get stuck there like my mum. My uncle also has a serious drink problem which has affected his health. He is sober, under psychiatric care and on medication but he hasn't had a drink for about 4 months. Now he has admitted he has a problem and has got the appropriate help. I admire him for that.
I'm in no way saying you're drinking is as bad as that just I think he has got further along the road to sobriety than my mum and he is a 'worse' alcoholic. Sorry I know that's bad grammar but couldn't think how to phrase it!

LDR - No, I'm definitely not of the vinegar ilk; and while my husband doesn't drink, I do.

Yes, I do see something of myself in you, in that I am a wonderful intellectualiser. I don't believe that working out the psychological implications works; that's just my opinion. I've done a lot of that for other reasons, and what I have found is that it is wading into the shit - the complexity of feelings - that works. And it is hard to do that when you're used to using your brain to work things out. That's just what I'm surmising.

But, hey, if another approach works for you, that's great. As long as you can say to yourself, hand on heart, that it really is working.

I do agree with conflu to an extent about the rationalissations. The intricate calculations about how much alochol things contain - 1 bottle of your special wine, 2 bottles of it - what that compares to and so on. I know as I used to do it. All boozers do it - they know the alcohol content of things and the calculate and switch from this to that to make it OK in their own heads.

Bottom line is though that while you're doing this you're still obsessing on alcohol. How many low-alcohol bottles of wine can you drink? How many should you? If you have another one and that is the equivalent of something else then what does that mean - should you switch? Can you switch? And then the ever dangerous thing of - actually look I can manage quite well with small amounts of alcohol - I can moderate my drinking to an extent - and then it creeps up again.

Only solution is to stop - no alcohol - I wouldn't even have one of those posh lemonades that is slightly alcoholic. When you stop - as in really stop - then you don't need to obsess about units or equivalents or if you have nothing tonight you can have 2 tomorrow or all of the other cobblers. You just stop, and you are free

Go on you know you want to. I mean, you're pretty much there aren't you. What you are drinking has very little alcohol in it. But while you're still having a bit - you're still having a bit IYSWIM. It's a risky strategy.

Sorry, I'm going to say this again because I really do think it's important: this is not low-alcohol wine. Low alc wine is something you can still get drunk on. This is not.

Sorry, that was very terse, but I was responding mainly to sardine saying she wouldn't 'even have one of those posh lemonades that are slightly alcoholic'. That is a fair comment, but the 'even' is slightly odd since this is just like that?

I know it's 0.5%. You said in your OP. That's still alcohol though. And it's not that low, it's not negligible. A lot less than normal wine, sure, but 1/7 the strength of some regular lagers. (Regular in the old fashioned sense before they started upping the ante to keep up with drinkers demand for stronger lagers). It's not none.

I said "even" as soft drinks with a small label saying that they contain a teeny bit of alcohol would not be considered to be an alcoholic beverage by some (most?) people.

I'm trying to help LRD

I'm going to log off now and watch a film with DH, I promised to switch the laptop off!!!

But Sardine, the point is that the soft drinks you're referring to have precisely the same labels as this stuff, which is why I'm not sure you're pointing out the difference between this and soft drinks that 'most people would not consider an alcoholic beverage'?

Maybe I'm reading you wrongly.

I do understand you're trying to help and I am grateful - it's just for me the 'this can't get me drunk' thing is a big, important issue. It's not perfect, but it's not terrible either.

I agree with Conflu. My mother was alcoholic, it ruined all our lives. She always rationalised it and found various "reasons" why everyone else, inc. AA, didnn't understand that she wasn't really alcoholic. A close friend is in recovery and AA, and has a good uality of life. I really wish my mum had done the same, instead of wasting her life. Look at it this way- if you go to AA and you're not alcoholic, so what? you'll meet some new people, nothing to lose. But if you don't go, and it turns out you are alcoholic, you're missing out on a huge source of help and support.

Forgot the most important bit - it must be tough coming on here to discuss this, so well done. I really wish you well and hope you find an answer that works for you. Good luck!

I think its the wine "substitute" that you need to switch away from.

I also didnt realise you were quite so young Dragon, I assumed from your posts you were quite a bit older than you are. I can appreciate at your ages it must be difficult as many of your peers are still happily going out getting absolutely shitfaced most weekends without any ill effects.

alice, I am an alcoholic, I've already said so, several times. Sorry to hear about your mum.

squeaky - yes, I agree there's a problem with substituting something for wine. I do think it's a problem - but what really worries me is the idea of damaging my health, not the idea of being psychologically dependent on something - for now.

I'm, er, glad to hear I sound old 'n' raddled! I've been a heavy drinker for 7 years; that's not healthy, hence the concern. It's tempting to say yes, it's normal for 20-somethings to go out and get drunk but this is not normal. And tba, I think we're not as a society very healthy with alcohol - I wonder how many other 26-year-olds who're happily getting drunk every weekend are actually storing up liver problems for themselves.

It is scary, isn't it?

I think what sardine and I and most others are trying to tell you, but you can't accept at the moment, is that it doesn't matter if it's 5%, 0.5% or 0.05% alcohol, it is STILL alcohol, and even though "I couldn't get drunk on it", it is STILL alcohol. It is still that psychological dependence on drinking. I still really think you need some outside help here, as you're finding it difficult to take on board this concept. Keep going with your efforts,x