Quick Advice Please! Should be in Brave Babes but I'm in a hurry and really upset

[JaneS]

So, I am an alcoholic and have been 'sober' for just over a month now. Or so I thought.

I was buying de-alcoholized wine, which is 0.5%. I'm aware I was using it as a crutch but thought it was quite sensible.

My problem is with my DH. He can be lovely, but he has a big problem with the way I want to stop drinking. In the past when I've tried to stop, he's been very sure that what I should do is to cut down, stop for a few days and then reward myself with a glass or two - drinking moderately, basically. This does not work for me at all. I know it's my job and nothing to do with him, but we've had words over it.

The problem now is I was feeling really happy and we'd gone to do the weekly shop. There's only one place that does decent quality de-alcoholized wine, so I started stocking up, putting 8 or so bottles in my trolley. DH then said this was bad and I shouldn't start drinking a bottle or two of this a day. I am aware that two bottles (or even one, which is what I'm tending to get through) adds up to an appreciable amount of alcohol. But I don't think it is remotely likely to get me drunk, and that seemed the important thing to me.

I'm really upset - I was quite literally shaking on the way home. I just feel as if no matter what I do, it's the wrong thing. I did say quietly to DH that I'd just managed a month and was proud of that, and he just said it was 'not good' to be using this as a substitute. I just feel rotten - I guess technically he is right that it's not a month with absolutely no alcohol, but it seems so contradictory of his previous view that I should drink moderately.

I don't know what to do, or if I should be upset? Please advise me, I don't know what to say to DH and he can see I'm upset.

He's just gone and rummaged through the bottles waiting to go for recycling - I don't know if he's counting them or what but I am really upset about this and I feel as if all my effort is going to waste.

Please advise.

Seems to me you have done very well already. A whole month with very little alcohol is great for you! Maybe this is a successful way for you to give up altogether, another month of non alcohol wine, and then on to ribena? I see what you are trying to do and wish you all the best in the world.

Witch - don't worry, it was my fault for typing in a rush.

Anyway, talking more to DH he says he thinks he just reacted to all the bottles in the trolley and forgot they were de-alcoholized, if that makes sense. We've talked and it does come across that he's really not sure what's best to do. But we're thinking about it all.

squirted - thanks, that was a really kind post.

LRD I've posted on the other thread.

LittleRed,

The giving up completely is an AA belief and not necessarily what your GP or other health professional would suggest.

You are doing really well. The stuff you are drinking is well within healthy limits and, as you said, is not enough to get you drunk.

In a month or 2 perhaps you could alternate it with Schloer or a non alcoholic wine? So a bottle lasts you 2 nights instead of 1.

Thanks venus, just replied. Much appreciated.

balls - I expect I should see what my GP does say - I've been being a bit of a wimp about it. I don't drink the 0.5% stuff two/three nights a week as I am away from home, and obviously not about to carry a bottle with me! It seems to be working well so far (cross fingers).

Hi littlered I did misunderstand what you meant about your dh and I'm glad you have now talked.'I do hope you quit alcohol and i do wish you all the best, again no advice as I wish I did know what would work! Take care.

Don't worry Rose, it was my confused typing that was at fault. I can see why you read it as you did.

Thanks for the good wishes - I'll try. I hope your mum makes some progress too.

I think that there are two things going on here.

1. Denial

1. Co-dependence

DH is in denial about both your drinking and his father's (and his relationship to his father's drinking). You are in denial about the effect of the low-alc wine on you. It is not about the level of alcohol in the wine. You know that. It is great that you are not drinking to oblivion now but if you are an alcoholic IMO you need to give up all drinking (and DH will have to live in a house without booze in it).

DH is getting something out of what is happening. Maybe his relationship with his father set him up to want to be the person who 'knows how to drink' and telling you what to do gives him power and a role. His childhood set him up for this and he will get angry and defensive when challenged. Having alcohol in the house is a symptom of this. Would you have peanuts in the house if your DH was fatally allergic? No. Alcohol is poison to you.

You need lots of help and counselling and support. DH will need to be a willing partner but he will need help and support as well.

I admit to being a proponent of abstinence. I don't think that alcoholics can control drink long-term. If you don't agree, feel free to ignore the above advice. Good luck

I wonder if your DH's motivation, in wanting you to be able to drink "socially" but then stop, is the fact that not-drinking socially is quite a radical statement: raising questions and eyebrows, and he just doesn't want to cope with this.

Nothing you have said about your DH so far has indicated he could be ashamed, but it is a motivation for some.

Or could he be motivated by "reasonableness" - that psychology of not understanding why people can't be "reasonable"?

Personally if you are an alcoholic I would see no difference between alcoholic and non-alcoholic wine so I'm with you DH on that point.
HOWEVER I also think your DH is being a twat, you have admitted to him you are an alcoholic and you want to stop drinking and yet he refuses to get rid of all alcohol in the house? I think you are going to seriously struggle to kick your addiction if your (D)H doesn't give you more support.

Dragon what is that you are getting from the de-alcoholised wine?

It's not wine
It's not making you drunk
There is no 'buzz'

It is, as someone else pointed out, all about the props and the reassurance that at least you are 'able to drink (de-alcoholised) wine'.

Regardless of your DH's feelings (because your feelings are priority here), this is just another habit that you have formed. It is less harmful but no less addictive.

Sit and think about what you are really getting from what you are buying, that you couldn't get from an alternative drink that comes in a nice bottle.

I agree with the AA way but I accept that there are other ways (although largely less successful tbh)but I think the de-alcoholised wine is just smoke and mirrors and doing you no favours.

You have done an amazing thing to stop 'drinking' for a month and your prop has served you well. Time for stage 2.

Good luck

Alcoholism is not just about the drug. It has a lot to do with being an addictive type of person.

I gave up smoking in 2000. I was still using nicorette in 2009. Several times a year (at a minimum) I would "blow out" and smoke (because hey, I could go back to nicorette in the morning)

Yes, giving up smoking was very important for my health but there is no way that it is "normal" to continue to use a crutch for 9 years and in all that time I was behaving in as addicted a way as when I was smoking.

The personality issues associated with addiction and alcoholism - the destructive self-delusion and warped thinking - is (IMO) worse than "being drunk" per se.

There is no need for you to use dealcoholised wine AT ALL. It's not a "crutch", it's a self-delusion propping up your addiction. It is pretending that the issue is different to what it is. I suspect that the demon inside thinks you are "proving" you can drink in this way because you are terrified of life without a bottle of wine. That suggests strongly that you are in need of professional help. You can't see the wood for the trees on this one. There is NO rational reason that dealcoholised wine will be helpful in aiding you to overcome an alcohol addiction.

I hope you get help soon

Living with an alcoholic is really difficult. I know. People can feel confused about how to support someone who is struggling with their addiction. It doesn't mean they are being selfish often they just don't know what you need so say and do things that are not helpful.

You need to gather all your courage and stop drinking any form of alcohol. It can be done - you can do it. I really don't think you are in a place where you can manage it how you are currently.

Good luck

Incidentally, my father is an alcoholic (non-functioning, has been in rehab 19 times in 13 years) and his most successful "stint of sobriety" was his following his second rehab, when he stayed off booze for two years.

The first sign that he was about to have "a slip" was that he started drinking Red Bull. That has NO alcohol in it, but it signalled a change in thinking and a desire for "something" that brought about the beginning of the end of that period of sobriety.

It's not about the drink in itself, it's the drinking behaviour that causes issues.

Geg yourself some proper, professional help.

If you are an alcoholic, it's any alcohol that's the problem, not necessarily the amount or strength consumed. You are addicted and you should get proper help to quit completely.

Your DH is probably very worried about you, but I do understand that his 'nagging' doesn't help.

However, you do need, for yourself, to face the fact that you need proper, professional help. and face your demons as it were.

BY the way, there really is something "to" alcohol compared to non-alcoholic drinks, and it's not just the alcohol: non-alcoholic drinks are so disgustingly sweet compared to a nice crisp glass of cold P - ooops, look who's on the wagon for Lent! It is really very missable, and I'm not surprised you are after something similar. Soda water and lime is the closest I have found, by the way: it's just sour enough to be "that" taste.

Dragon I think you've done brilliantly to not drink for a month. Well done!

I disagree with most of the advice given on this thread; I think that if the de-alcoholised wine is helping you get through the first few months, then that's absolutely fine. So what if it's a crutch? There are lots of aspects to being an alcoholic, as you seem to be perfectly aware. The most damaging one for you, from what you've said, is the effect of the alcohol on your health; and you've wiped that out by cutting down your alcohol intake to virtually nil. If that is made easier for you by sipping a wine glass of something that tastes like wine, then I really don't see a problem with that - you've got plenty of time to deal with that (much less harmful) habit once your body has got used to not having any significant amount of alcohol.

I know it wasn't opinions on your (non) drinking you wanted, but I wanted to balance the majority opinion on this thread, IYSWIM.

Regarding your DH's behaviour today, it sounds to me as though he is struggling a bit with the change to the status quo of your drinking, from what you've said. From what he's said since, it does sound as if he wasn't really thinking very much about what he was saying. It sounds as if you took what he said to heart when he didn't mean that much by it. Do you think you might be feeling extra sensitive about it all at the moment?

Maybe it's good that this happened in that it's got you both talking about it a bit more and about how you're both feeling about you giving up? I think it can be quite hard when a partner suddenly changes something fundamental and entrenched about themselves - even when that 'thing' was destructive or negative. Is he able to talk to you about how he feels about this, and are you able to talk to him in turn?

Anyway Brave Babe - it sounds to me like you're doing really well. Keep it up!

Back - have just been buying dinner.

SLightly - sorry, don't understand what you're getting at when you ask what I'm getting out of de-alc wine that I wouldn't out of something that 'comes in a nice bottle'? It tastes like wine, obviously. That's the point. As I understand it, the issue would be that it might tempt me to drink again because it's similar, yes? But then, if I used lemonade, or whatever, in a similar way, they might too. I don't think the kind of drink is the issue, it's the way I drink it, isn't it? Or was that what you were saying?

I'm not feeling my brightest today, may be missing the obvious!

working - I think alcoholism is when you're terrified of life without the bottle, isn't it? And you're saying Red Bull could be the same? That does make sense. I hope I can change my thinking.

slipper - thanks for the perspective, and the good wishes.

hairy - I see what you're saying, that psychologically it doesn't matter if I'm drinking 14% wine or 0.5%, I'm still keeping the same thought pattern. I do think I need to reiterate though, that the benefits for my health are pretty obvious and important, and that was my main motivation for giving up.

plu - exactly, I can't stand the sweetness of lots of fizzy drinks.

Oops, sorry, I thought I'd finished but haven't.

Daffodils, thanks for the opinion. I do see people's point that I'm still psychologically dependent and I can understand the worry that I'm not tackling that. I do need to do so. In an ideal world, I would. But in this very non-ideal one, I feel I'm faced with a choice between drinking, and harming my health, and relying on a substitute that doesn't stop my psychological addiction. For the moment, I think it's the second course of action I'm going for.

I do think DH and I have made a lot of progress today - I've realized that he really has changed his ideas and doesn't think I should drink in moderation, which is so good to know. I think we'll keep talking a lot and hopefully thinking it through.

Ok Dragon that's a fair answer. I aksed because i have two alcoholics in my family and both of them have told me that drinking is nothing to do with what things 'taste' like. It's either 1. about the habit/rituals or 2. about getting bladdered / drinking until you are drunk enough to fall asleep.

So my point was, the de-alc wine could be substituted for anything instance 1, and won't do the job of instance 2.

But if you are drinking it for the 'taste', that's different.

Ah, I see what you mean. Well, I was warned by other alcoholics that what you mustn't do is pretend to yourself that you are really not an alcoholic but a 'wine lover' ... which is quite easy to do. So it is nice to me to acknowledge that this stuff tastes like wine, and I can have it instead, if that makes sense.

I never really drank in a social way, so don't have that habit to break.

I'm really sorry it's a long thread I haven't read all of it.

My take on your DH is that it's a big deal to have an alcoholic in the family, and most people understandably would rather not have that. It means facing up to a big problem, having a potentially difficult time giving up, not being able to join in with society in a "normal" way (drinking is hugely ingrained in our culture), having to think of answers as to why someone isn't drinking, not being able to go out for a meal and a some wine or a drink as a relaxing treat (another pretty huge deal for many people) and so on and so on.

It is far easier to say, well yes you get too drunk, too often, but I don't think you're an alcoholic, can't you just cut down? Just drink normally? Just stop being like that and be normal instead?

And then life can continue as normal, with the nice occasional glass of wine to relax, or bottle with a meal out, and all of the nice socially acceptable and to an extent socially expected side of alcohol, without the downside.

What you need to make him understand is that you cannot have just one. That you drink to get drunk. That you have no "off switch". That one glass of wine is never ever going to be enough.

That is as big and scary for him as it is for you.

I am projecting somewhat here in case you hadn't guessed

Bottom line is, he needs to understand and accept that you are alcoholic. And you need to stop consuming anything with alcohol in it.

BTW if you have small children I would be wary about seeking non-anonymous assistance if I were you. I know that sounds terribly unhelpful but I did and it all went rather pear-shaped for me.

I hope that some of that is helpful

pm me if you like as well.

sardine, really appreciate your reply. I think DH was/is having some of the problems you describe, but we are working through it.

I don't have children (I would like to, which is an excellent reason to stop drinking), but still am wary of non-anonymous help. When I was at university I sought help and, as with you, it completely rebounded on me (I was kicked out for a year, as if this would help ).

I'm sorry you've had a bad time, but in a funny way it's good to know it's not just me who's wary of official help.

it's nice to know that having been through something helps other people.

I haven't had a drink for about 18 months now. I don't miss it at all!

I used to smoke heavily and gave up with allen carr's book - I used the same methods to stop drinking and I found it much easier than giving up smoking TBH. I saw someone upthread mention allen carr so if you aren't familiar with him then it might be worth checking him out. I'm not normally into self-help stuff but he just makes you realise how pointless your addiction is and once you get that then you're halfway there.

Even though I sought help with giving up my drinking, all I got in return was the most enormous load of stress at a time when I didn't need it (ie I had just given up drinking) and no support at all. I have a bit of an axe to grind there

Bottom line is - if I can do it - and I was drinking for 20 years pretty much every night and a fair amount - then seriously anyone can do it. And the stupid thing is it was easy, I don't miss it at all.

Good luck

As someone who has spent years living with an alcoholic, the first thing I noticed in your posts was that both you and your DH seemed to think that he had a key role to play in helping you get on top of your alcohol problem. I second the pp who flagged up the issue of co-dependence.

Sadly, I suspect the only positive thing your DH can do to help is not push alcohol at you. The rest is down to you. Arguing over his attitude to your non-alcoholic wine consumption etc.. is just academic and a waste of energy. There's pretty much nothing that anyone but you can do. Please don't blame your DH and set up thought-processes in which he becomes part of the problem.

I recommend that you tell your DH gently but firmly that this is your problem and that you have to be the one who beats it. And then do it.

Good luck, by the way. A month is an extremely good start.