Quick Advice Please! Should be in Brave Babes but I'm in a hurry and really upset

[JaneS]

So, I am an alcoholic and have been 'sober' for just over a month now. Or so I thought.

I was buying de-alcoholized wine, which is 0.5%. I'm aware I was using it as a crutch but thought it was quite sensible.

My problem is with my DH. He can be lovely, but he has a big problem with the way I want to stop drinking. In the past when I've tried to stop, he's been very sure that what I should do is to cut down, stop for a few days and then reward myself with a glass or two - drinking moderately, basically. This does not work for me at all. I know it's my job and nothing to do with him, but we've had words over it.

The problem now is I was feeling really happy and we'd gone to do the weekly shop. There's only one place that does decent quality de-alcoholized wine, so I started stocking up, putting 8 or so bottles in my trolley. DH then said this was bad and I shouldn't start drinking a bottle or two of this a day. I am aware that two bottles (or even one, which is what I'm tending to get through) adds up to an appreciable amount of alcohol. But I don't think it is remotely likely to get me drunk, and that seemed the important thing to me.

I'm really upset - I was quite literally shaking on the way home. I just feel as if no matter what I do, it's the wrong thing. I did say quietly to DH that I'd just managed a month and was proud of that, and he just said it was 'not good' to be using this as a substitute. I just feel rotten - I guess technically he is right that it's not a month with absolutely no alcohol, but it seems so contradictory of his previous view that I should drink moderately.

I don't know what to do, or if I should be upset? Please advise me, I don't know what to say to DH and he can see I'm upset.

He's just gone and rummaged through the bottles waiting to go for recycling - I don't know if he's counting them or what but I am really upset about this and I feel as if all my effort is going to waste.

Please advise.

If you'd put 8 bottles of Diet Coke in the trolley, how do you think he would have reacted?

but it's hard to counter his arfument when you are still drinking every day... you both need proper help and support for you to quit

you're both wrong in thinking that alcohol can be used as a moderate reward (DH) that you can engage in drinking everyday (you) even if low alcohol

you are direceting your anger at your DP, when really, IMO, you should be angry at yourself and using htat anger to get proper advice and support to stop if you are an alcoholic

We ARE trying to give you advice about him. We are trying to tell you as best we can how he may be thinking.

He has no right to be furious at you. You both need to calm down. Show him this thread if you can, there is nothing but good advice for BOTH of you on this thread.

I agree with your husband - and you should be thankful that you have a loving husband who cares about you, and wants you to stop drinking completely.

The way I see it is that alcohol is a drug - if you have an addictive tendancy, then you will want more. If a person on drugs went cold turkey for a month, would their family like to see them having one more smoke after the month for a "reward"? It's just a horrible never ending circle. The people who care about you, dont want you going down the same road again, even if you think you're only having a small drink.

I don't think your husband is acting inappropriately - it does look like you are using this "low dose" alcohol as a substitute. If you've gone without for a month, then you can do 2 months and so on. There is no need for a reward. You obviously gave the drink because it was destructive to your life - why would you want to celebrate giving it up for a month with another drink?

Sorry if you don't agree, but you asked for people's opinions and I agree with your husband. If I offend you due to lack of past history then I apologize in advance.

I posted on your DH's response, OP. :)

I wish you well, it's not easy dealing with any addiction, but you can and you will and then you'll be free.

Think it's about the addiction to drinking, as well as the actual alcohol the drink contains if you get my drift.the legally sober bit doesn't count. FIL had some good medication, which helped with symptoms of coming off, as well as helping with the addiction. But AA was vital. Please see GP. You're on the right road, as know you have a problem, but need help in tackling. But DH needs to be on board with the programme, as we all have to be in order for things to succeed, so maybe take DH with you to see GP?x

I think you are doing really well too.

I suppose I'd suggest you ask him:

"You obviously disapproved of me buying this wine. What did you think I should do instead?"

His reply might surprise you.

It might be any of these:

"Wine is wine, you'd be better off having the proper stuff and enjoying yourself."
"It's too expensive."
"Because even though it had barely any alcohol in it it's still got some, and you should have none."
"You're going completely over the top, anyone would think you thought you were an alcoholic or something."
"I want to have a drink with you and I don't like that stuff."
"I've told you before, why don't you just cut down?"

Think about all the different things he might say in advance and plan your answers?

You say to us that you are an alcoholic. Does he know you think this about yourself? Does he agree with you? Or does he think you're being too hard on yourself?

Of course you're upset, it's really bloody difficult admitting to yourself that you can't do someone everyone else can do (drink 'normally'), and trying to find a way out of the situation, without someone who has no idea what it's like telling you what you can and can't do.

You say his dad is 'a functioning alcoholic in a culture that doesn't much admit to alcoholism', I'm going to assume that's the same culture as meself . Maybe DH has an image of an alcoholic as a tramp on a park bench, and doesn't believe you really are one?

Aye - interesting question - I expect he'd have been fine with it as we also bought 10 bags of coffee beans because I wanted to stock up on those too.

I've spoken to him and he says he doesn't know why he reacted like that, but it wasn't the alcohol content. I'm not sure if he's saying what he really thinks or not.

Thanks squeaky, really appreciate it. I'm just finding his response hard to understand, whereas I can understand the argument that I should drink nothing alcoholic at all, inc. ginger beer etc.

milky - I am thankful I have him. However, he doesn't want me to stop completely. He wants me to drink socially then stop. I hope this doesn't come across wrongly, but did you misread one of my (no doubt garbled) posts? It's him who wants me to 'reward' myself with a glass of wine, not me.

happy - I do agree there's a pyschological addition to drinking that needs tackling, but I just can't see that it 'doesn't count' if I'm not getting drunk. To me this is a battle, and it feels hard to accept that there is no difference between this, and getting drunk. Certainly this is better for my health, even if not for the psychological addiction. Does that make sense? I'm explaining my thought process not defending it btw - the way I see it, addicts have nasty tenacious thought patterns and I've been told before that an addicted brain is very good at rationalizing.

Cross-posts, sorry.

Balloon - he knows I'd say I'm an alcoholic. Not sure he agrees. He says he doesn't know why he responded as he did to the wine but he is pretty adamant it's not the alcohol - he's says he's not sure why I thought that was the reason for his reply as, as he puts it 'it's like drinking Fentimans'. Which from his point of view it is.

So I am still confused. It may be as you say, that he's just frustrated I can't drink normally.

heathen - he's Russian; I'm guessing you're Irish? Anyway - I think it's not quite 'guy on park bench', but more like his dad, who has been drinking a loooong time. I have a suspicion DH thinks I can't possibly have been drinking long enough to do damage, which is I know not true.

Im really not trying to be mean to you op but how is your dh selfish because it's wants to help you quit drinking? You have no right to be furious with him at all. 8 bottles of even low alcohol wine?? My mum is an alcoholic and has "1" drink at a weekend and that's what she said shewould allow herself and she wouldn't drink otherwise. Well when I phone her after work and she barely talk she's so drunk all I can think is she's still under her alcoholic delusions and it sounds like you are too. I haven't any advice cos I don't even know how to help my mum. You need to see your gp to get proper help and you need to stop completely otherwise you won't be able to do it. I wish lots of luck I hope you do do it just thesame as I hope one day my mum might be able to but not holding my breath for that. Sorry if I'm harsh but you still sound in denial to me. Good luck.

Ah, of course, the one place that drinks more than Ireland!

An addicted brain is very good at rationalizing to suit the purpose, that is the problem you are facing at the moment.

Rosa - No, I didn't mean he was selfish to want to help me quit drinking. I meant he was selfish to insist I tell him what was wrong while I was still trying to work out exactly why I was upset. Sorry, that was confusing.

I think maybe you're confused about low alcohol wine? Low alcohol wine is 5-10%, and you could easily get drunk on it. I don't think it's physically possible to get drunk on dealcoholized wine. Happy is making the point (correctly) that this is irrelevant insofar as the psychological side of addiction goes - I'm still using something as a 'wine substitute'. But I think it's different from the situation you describe with your mother.

I really appreciate you posting, I understand it must be hard for you.

squeaky - yes, that's the quotation I've heard - it's as if your brain puts all its energy into coming up with ingenious (and wrong!) arguments.

I do think there's a lot to this and I need to work out what to do.

The difficulty I've got is that being psychologically addicted to anything wine-substitute-y is bad, obviously. Ideally, I'd want not to be. But being a drunk is far, far worse for me immediate health. So to me it is a hard thing: can I manage the 'ideal' or is this solution a bit like those Nicorette tabs you get for smokers?

Nicotine replacement give the addict a hit of their drug of choice without the accompanying routines and habits (and without the health-damaging smoke).

It sounds as though you want to continue the routines and habits, while trying to avoid the alcohol.

So your dh thinks that you should give up the daily bottles of almost no alcohol wine, and have a 'real' drink once a week?

You're feeling backed into a corner with him counting empty bottles, etc.

You need to sit down with him and have another discussion about how you would like to deal with your alcohol issues.

I have known people who substituted low alcohol drinks in an effort to get sober. Worked for some. Others just find that they need a mental clearout of all alcohol associated drinks and attending behaviours, before sobriety can really happen.

Its ultimately your call, which you know already. Could it be your feeling of being judged by him that's upsetting you so much? Or his thwarting of your current efforts?

Either way, I admire you for considering your alcohol issues. I have struggled with wine, and I know its very hard.

I'm assuming that you somehow got to crisis point with your drinking, Dragon, and decided to do something about it. Did you get professional advice from an organisation or a diagnosis from your GP? Did your DH tell you to sort out your problem, but without understanding what it was exactly?

I truly do not think that you can drink any alcohol in however minute a quantity. From my experience (not with drinking though), addiction doesn't work that way.

What are you so upset about in relation to your husband's attitude? I'm trying to put myself in your shoes and I think that I'd feel as if I'd failed when I thought I'd done well by cutting down - and I'd have a massive dose of reality in realising that I just couldn't do what my DH can do so normally and easily, ie. drink moderately or not at all.

You need support, Dragon, and you need to tell your husband that you're an alcoholic if you haven't already. Find the Al-Anon website or any other that explains the position and sit him down to read about it. He will probably feel a mixture of anger and helplessness and maybe shame at not supporting you, but you both will have faced the problem and you can tackle it together from there.

I don't think your DH has been selfish, Dragon, I think it's usually the addict who is completely self-absorbed as they're caught up in their addiction and they hear what they want to. He needs to show you support and you need to be understanding of him also as he struggles to understand a problem that he doesn't have but you do.

I think you are heading on the right track, definately. Maybe a solution is to buy a varied selection of soft drinks. Drink it out of a wine glass, so that you have the props so to speak.. but vary the flavours.. and avoid the wine substitutes.

Coke, Fruit juices, lemonade, or go for teas and coffee.

What you do need to do is not cut sugar out altogether, as the high sugar content is also part of the addiction. But cutting down (not out) on sugar will be the easiest bit.

pip - I think that's probably a fair assessment, except that I suppose it wasn't a great basic comparison for me to make because smokers damage their health but don't massively change their behaviour while they smoke. What is really different for me at the moment is that I can't just drink and let the evening go floating away while I do nothing - so I do have to change my habits insofar as I have to find something to do!

human - You're right, I do need to talk to him. I guess I also need to be really honest with myself about whether or not I'm trying my hardest here. The thing that scares me is that I've tried to stop before and not managed, and this feels quite last-ditch.

Anyways ... I am so grateful to everyone for talking me through it.

Well maybe your way will work. Don't lose faith in your ability to tackle this problem. Whatever happens, you've got to be doing better than drinking heavily.

witch (great name btw) - cross-posted so didn't see your last.

I wanted to stop because it's damaging to my health and that scared me. He didn't ask me to stop, though he would try to stop me drinking very heavily. I have told him I'm an alcoholic. I have explained before, but perhaps not very well, that my 'selfish' wasn't a comment related to his attitude to the alcohol, it was a comment on him wanting always to know exactly what's wrong when I needed time to think about it. Basically I got home and wanted to ask people on here (I actually posted on Brave Babes as they know their stuff well, but it's quite quiet there). He was pestering me to talk immediately, and I thought that was selfish as I was upset and trying to work out why.

squeaky - been there, done that.

I've been trying unsuccessfully to give up for a year or two, and trying hard for the last year. I've never got this far before, without stopping, buying a bottle of wine and drinking it. And then carrying on.

human - I clearly need to think really hard about 'my way'. Please don't think I am saying 'ooh, no, you're all wrong and I will ignore this advice', because I'm not. I'm just trying to work through it and to work out if I can get away from being so dependent on this crutch. Make sense?

Dragon... I misunderstood you on the 'selfish' point, sorry. I think that's quite a 'man' thing, wanting to know what the problem is immediately so that they can dive straight in to 'fix it'.

It's dificult for someone who has never felt the pull of an addiction and tried to ignore it. That's possibly why he's being so snappy with you as he just doesn't understand and he needs to. This isn't something that can be fixed overnight, it's a long, hard process as you say and he needs to understand that his perception of your being able to drink moderately again is not something that can happen in reality.

You doon't say whether you're actually getting support from the AA or any other outlet so perhaps that is an option for you also - people who really do know what's what?

I wish you well with it, the feeling of addiction is terrible.