to be horrified at Starkey

[amiheartless]

the comment he made to that lad in Jamies Dream School,
was appalling,
(for people who didnt see)
there was no provocation the class was joking around about evolution, about animals are faster and this lad pointed to his muscle ..and Starkey said,

'you're so fat im surprised you can move!'
I felt for the lad, my blood was boiling
when will teachers learn humiliation does not work as a teaching technique!!!

sorry rant over,

Starkey was/is a prat and his behaviour was unacceptable - and would be in most class rooms

Agree with FallenMadonna that teachers do actually need to model some kind of manners. If they bully the teens they teach, how can they clamp down on bullying in the school? Which surely is considered a matter of discipline?

'Talking AT pupils is very poor teaching, obviously fine at university'

no, not really

engaging a whole lecture theatre full is a different skill from engaging a class but if there isn't communication going on between audience and lecturer (whether that means the lecturer being alert to cues from the audience as to whether they're listening/getting it, or more explicit interaction) it won't work well.

Yes I take your point, I have been to university beleive it or not, and know exactly what you mean. I remember some crushingly boring lectures and it's not good at any level. I just wanted to get across that Starkey is obviously used to teaching in a different environment to the one in the show.

Ovbiously what you say is true, what I meant was Starkey is used to lecturing, not providing activities and structuring a whole lesson. Kids like the ones in the show need to do stuff, not sit and listen for long periods, no matter how good the lecturer is.

fair enough Lecce, I agree with you

I suspect Starkey is so reveared by some that the fact that he IS a rather dull lecturer or teacher goes by the by

He is a gifted academic but that doesn't make one a gifted performer and teaching is about engaging and educating not droning on from BEHIND a desk

The most bone gridingly dull lecturers we had where those who hid their inability to educate behind their academic qualifications

anyone with any common sense knows that the kind of confrontation he engaged in - unprovoked gets you KNOW WHERE since the young person isn;t going to back down and neither are you - so where do you take it?

No need for it - he wouldn;t talk to an adult that way - he spoke to those kids like they where beneath him - it was shameful to watch and I would sack him in a heart beat :)

Now, although I wouldn't personally use the word cretin, I think there is actually a difference between calling out a child who isn't engaging their brain (and as this was a grammar school I assume none of them actually were limited in intelligence) and insulting a child's physical appearance. I would be more likely to say that one of my bright students was being dense than one of my weaker students too.

No deep, emotional scars from being called the 'most stupid cretin since Biblical times' or a 'useless lump of nothing' back in 1983...

The boys you are describing do not come from the same starting point as the students on the show though, do they? They were in schools where that sort of talk was accecpted and expected and, as you say, the boys played their part and made up similar names about the teachers too. The boys then went home to their comfortable, middle-class homes.

The situation in the show is in no way comparable and I don't really see what point you are making, tbh. The boys you describe didn't succeed because they were called insulting names, did they? They succeeded because of their backgrounds and abilities I assume. The name-calling had no effect one way or the other.

The students in the show are more vulnerable, though I know theyr're not all from deprived backgrounds, but they have all struggled at school so are not part of an educational culture in the way the boys you describe were. They don't feel comfortable, for want of a better word, at school, like the boys you describe clearly did.

To compare the two situations is totally unhelpful imo.

even if they where not scarred for life it doesn't make their teachers good teachers - honestly if you HAVE to establish control in the classroom with bullying and belittling children then you are a piss poor teacher :)

Those who extol the virtues of "straight talking" are spectacularly missing the point.

This boy had done nothing. Starkey was unable to see in front of him a room full of people, but rather a seething mass of texting teenagers. He was terrified, and in order to make himself feel better, he looked for the weakest and put him down. That is abhorrent in any situation; and an education system which perpetuates this method of human interaction is to be condemned, not celebrated.

DP is French and was regularly hit at school and told he was worthless (he has -it turns out- dyslexia). On one occasion, the teacher broke his nose with a textbook. Inexplicably, he did not leave school with a first class education, gain a university place or suffer no emotional scars. He is still terrified of schools (which is difficult, since I'm a teacher). To pretend that people were not scarred by their teachers' attitudes towards them is ridiculous. Hey- Pink Floyd even wrote a song about it

I don't think they were allowed to text in the lesson LeQueen. I think they just did it despite not being allowed. As a teacher, that's one of the things you need to manage.

And yes, the response depends on the individual. Which is why you spend time building up a relationship with students before you start with the comments. You don't just blunder in and insult someone because you are losing control of the situation.

LeQueen - I have heard Starkey lecture too, come to think of it, twice, when I was doing History A Level and he did some talks for A Level students, one at my school. Before he was famous.
He was quite good.
we must have had better listening skills at 16 than these kids I suppose....

Starkey knew he was going to be teaching a disaffected bunch of teens. He was the 'adult' in that scenario...it wasn't very 'adult' or professional of him to insult one of the kids in the room, after telling the class that they were there because they had 'failed'. It would be like me telling the kids I support (as a TA) that they are only with me because they are 'thick' (insert derogatory term of choice).

LeQueen, I suggest you watch the show and the Starkey bit. It was excruciating.

I think some people are missing the point.

I would not speak to anyone the way he spoke to that boy.

It's nothing to do with being firm or truthful - Starkey was being a dick.

I doubt there are many parents on this forum who would let such a cruel, unprovoked comment towards their children pass without mention. Especially coming from an authority figure, a professional, who is supposed to be a role model for them.

What makes it even worse is that he humiliated that child in front of all his new friends and on national TV.

I don't care who you're talking to or what they've done. He was being an arsehole and I actually think that boy held it together really well. You could see the hurt in his face, ffs.

If respect has to be earned, he certainly lost a lot of mine after that programme.

And wtf is all this 'respect should be earned' crap anyway? No, you should respect everyone. It's possible to lose respect, but everyone has a right to be treated in a respectful way. Surely that's not PC gone mad - just good manners!

Manners is it. I try to model good manners every day in my classroom.

However, to be honest it's harder work that way. Today I found myself bellowing saying this pearl of wisdom: "I'm not saying Quiet Please because you have an OPTION - I'm saying it because I am POLITE!It MEANS shut up NOW!" The shame...

I don't think it makes it harder work. I'm always polite to the kids in my classes. It's possible to be firm and polite at the same time, or frustrated and polite, or truthful and polite, at the same time.

IHeartKingThistle, I don't think your little pearl of wisdom in any way compares with what Starkey said :)

Thanks! True, I've never called a child fat! It wasn't a good week!

Starkey was a disgrace, I feel sorry for any phd students who may have had to study with him.

Well handled by JO and the school though.