Ex forces members as schoolteachers, (Panorama tonight?)

[GabbyLoggon]

Are they being unreasoable?

Its a government idea copied from America
(suprise, suprise)

Training ex forces members to be schoolteachers (It has always been open for them to do that.)

Is it a gimmick? The trouble is Cameron learned from Blair the art of regular publicity stunts.

So it is difficult to know what to take seriously.

What do the teaching profession think of it? "Gabby"

No, they are contracted (and in fact they do not have a contract of employment) to defend the realm. That means intelligence gathering, engineering, medicine, law,negotiation, diplomacy, and logistics to name but a few specialisations.

Afaik, my Dad, brother and husband have not killed anyone in the 45 years I have been a Naval daughter, wife and sister. If you asked them about their careers my db would talk about catering, logistics and pay; my dh would talk about engineering, international jobs and high level diplomacy and my Dad about travelling and working his way from being a boy sailor at 15 with 4 O levels in the 50s, to a mid ranking Officer by the time he was 39. They would talk about opportunity and career progression. They would only talk about this if asked.

If they were teaching then they would be teaching their subjects, not careers, as there are others who do that. You seem to have a strange view of what is taught. If asked, I told the kids what I used to do, but I didn't advocate my previous career. Your children will encounter worse than someone having been in the military being a teacher; you can't protect them from everything. I think pushing the vegan lifestyle is immoral and I've heard some teachers do that, especially in an area where dairy farming is what supports many of the kids. Your kids will be taught by people with different moral standards to yours, mine is now, but I tell him to listen, discuss it with us and come to his own conclusions.

This is more about allowing schools and other civvie companies to see there's more to forces personnel than war fighting!

It's about illustrating the many transferable skills officers and soldiers have a wealth of and that teaching can be a great career after leaving the forces provided enough training is given.

I know that my DH would make a fabulous HT/bursar however, he would definitely need to do a PGCE as the curriculum has changed so much since he left school.

As an example, my DH has considered training to teach engineering at secondary level and were it not for the extremely low wages compared to his current salary, he would seriously consider leaving within the next few years.

Yey - go scary

scaryteacher is one of the few making sense on this thread! I can't believe the stereotypes I'm reading.

As for being trained killers, the majority would defend themselves if required, but I don't think that is unique to the Forces. Most never make it near a 'frontline'.

I'd have thought they would be highly unlikely to wax lyrical about the horrors of op tours, especially if so 'valued' by the services that they have been made redundant.

Why do I feel like this is not just going to take jobs away from people who have the correct training and years of honing actual teaching skills, but also going to see a surge in the amount of impressionable young people who join the forces.

My little brother attends a very good grammar school where army personnel frequently pay visits and encourage the young men there to join up. It is very effective and I remember his school collecting money last year for an 18 year old boy who joined up straight after leaving school and had ended up with all his limbs blown off. The army personell still come snooping around for new recruits and it is very effective when you look at how many boys from that school end up in the forces.

I see something very sinister in all of this, especially if they will be primarily running schools for non mainstream students who have discipline problems etc..

I agree with mumsnot and fannyfoghorn, and above all it cannot be forgotton IMO that the type of training military personnel go through for years, makes them very different to civillians in how they think and interact with people, let alone a bunch of rowdy kids who don't know how to take orders so easily.

Oh deary me LDNmummy - you really should arm yourself with the facts about 'army personnel' as outlined by scary before saying such ridiculous things

Oh I may have got my info wrong though, my pregnancy brain is mush at the moment so do correct me where I may have made mistakes in my understanding of the issue

Many public schools/grammar schools LDN have cadet units so yes, there would be serving personnel coming to visit occasionally. However, this does not mean they are recruiting!

lol vintageteacups, I didn't see your post till after my page refreshed.

I read back over what scary has said and I agree with a lot of the the issues she has posted in regards to soft NQT's. My DP is an NQT and he has often highlighted the same issues, he is a very good teacher and is very passionate about his job so he does find these same problems on occassion.

But when it comes to the military and schooling I do feel that Scary may have a bias opinion.

I will wait till DP gets home and ask his opinion and come back to this, this debate will interest him too and he may just agree with Scary, will wait and see.

But they do encourage the children to join by presenting them with glamarous portrayals of military life, I find that very disturbing. I have seen a couple of the pamphlets and heard from my brother and his schoolfreinds the jist of what they say too the kids and it is very much a "Have you considered joining the military? No? Well you should because..." situation.

Not good IMO.

glamerous*

or glamorous sorry!

Having looked again at the reports on this, it seems the government has announced that military personnel without a degree will be able to do a fast track degree in 2 years and the government will pay them to do so.

And that is happening when teacher training places for civilians who already have a degree in their specialist area have been cut, as has funding.

This really isn't about if people from the forces should be allowed to be teachers, it is about why they are being given opportunities that more qualified people aren't allowed to take up.

'Why do I feel like this is not just going to take jobs away from people who have the correct training and years of honing actual teaching skills, but also going to see a surge in the amount of impressionable young people who join the forces.'

Well, if you think a 22 year old who is an NQT has 'years of honing teaching skills' you are sadly mistaken. They'll have had a year if they do a PGCE. It's not taking jobs away from existing teachers, but trying to widen the appeal of teaching to those who have had other careers first.

Why shouldn't young people join up? Those who do can train to a variety of things, see my previous posts. My db is a logistician; my dh an engineer, both with Masters degrees obtained through and paid for by the RN, and professional qualifications to boot.

Yes, there is a risk of injury depending which service you join. However, that is true of going for a night out or crossing the road. Both my dh and db are submariners, safer than flying.

Military personnel are not different in how they interact with people than civilians - for the most part they are far more polite. They have more exacting standards true, but that is no bad thing. How many service personnel are actually in your close and immediate and wider circle LDNMummy? Are you talking from experience or just from the stereotypes being peddled on here?

I agree that the military do glamourise the military life in their recruitment strategies, but don't agree that ex military would act as "underground" recruitment agencies in schools! If anything they would be able to give an honest opinion not biased by what appears to be most people's unfounded prejudices.

MillyR - military personnel have always been able to take additional qualifications, if they so wish whilst they are serving. This is nothing new.

If they have transferrable skills why should they not be able to do a fast track degree? It is similar to the "aquired prior learning credits" you can get when studying an OU degree.

I am not biased LDNMummy, but having seen some god awful PGCE students and NQTs, then someone with an idea of what they need to do and how they could achieve it without needing their hand held at all hours of the night would be nice. It is not just the military - I had far more positive experiences with late entrants to teaching who had outside experience than I did with wet behind the ears grads who had no idea about anything.

As for fast track degrees, if you have spent years doing a specialisation and don't need to be taught the basics, it could be in something like engineering that your experience could be equivalent to a year's credits. I have sneaking suspicion that most degrees could be taught in two years anyway!

Loving the generalisations . Just so you know Val, I've never had to kill or be killed .

Some military would make excellent teachers. I also know a couple of teachers that are TA and combine both careers successfully.

Both DH and I took part in the Heartstone Project some years ago, talking to (some) disafected teens about our experiences and relating it to them re bullying etc. We were able to get through to most of the kids we spoke to very successfully. So much so that (to our units disgust) we were asked to attend many more Heartstone events. I think a lot of it was that neither of us were willing to sugar coat any of what we were saying - we 'gave it to them straight' . We were also able to quickly recognise and isolate the ringleaders/troublemakers so our part in the events went smoothly and quickly.

When he first left the forces DH spent some time teaching YO's (building skills, not academic) and on the whole was well received by them.

I think a lot of ex forces have an air of authority about them that could do a lot of good in schools. If a teacher is seen as wet then the kids are going to play up more - if a teacher is known as no pushover he may get more out of them.

Anyhow, it's yet another non-story about an initiative that has been rehashed to make the British Public think the ConDems are actually 'doing something' whilst in power - when in reality I think they are doing very little!

Any ex forces that wants to become a teacher is still going to have to train, it's not like they will walk out of camp in combats one day and wear a suit to the local secondary the next - so I dont understand why anyone's knickers are in a twist about it?

I am ex military and think it has given me loads of life skills and skills to work in my current setting which is a childrens centre nursery. I think I am better for having been in the military than I as before, no doubt about it.

Of course recruitment 'glamorise' the military life - they're not going to say 'join now as an infantryman and risk getting your legs blown off' any more than Bernard Matthews recruit for their company saying 'come and help us turn turkey testicles into twizzlers'.

Oh and schools don't get money paid for each child that leaves to join the services.

Sheesh.

A. Do as they are told without questioning it (I'm speaking of adults here of course, not of the expectations reasonably made of schoolchildren).

B. Kill.

C. Risk being killed.

Also I definitely wasnt ever in any danger at any time. I was never going to be anywhere that I was going to get killed.

"But they do encourage the children to join by presenting them with glamarous portrayals of military life, I find that very disturbing. I have seen a couple of the pamphlets and heard from my brother and his schoolfreinds the jist of what they say too the kids and it is very much a "Have you considered joining the military? No? Well you should because..." situation."

isnt join the Army

it's Consider joining the Army - along with all your other options........ The Army IS NOT ALLOWED to recruit in schools (I've served with an Army Recruiting Team - I know)

Being in the military is a lot better than being a NEET, and probably safer too.

CM, if there are people who have the knowledge to be able to do compressed degrees that give them a teaching qualification, that should be equally open to people from all professions and backgrounds. The funding should also be open to people from all backgrounds. It isn't. The course and the funding are solely for people from the forces.

My brother has 25 years experience in engineering and no degree. He also trains apprentices. This teaching opportunity is not being offered to people like him.

Vallhalla you'd be shocked if you knew what my husband's attitude to being in the military was. His final report (after a full career in the green machine) stated that his CO had never known a more civilian soldier. He's never killed, never tried to kill, and can't even win a prize with a rifle at the fair.

He's passionate about Science, and I couldn't think of anyone I'd rather teach my kids SCIENCE than him. He has a huge work ethic, an ability to communicate at all levels, is highly organised, and gives off an air of authority without even opening his mouth. Some if not all of these qualities came from being in the Army, and all of them are qualities I wish I'd had in my own teachers.

I have NO idea what makes you think that an ex-military teacher would stand at the front 'waxing lyrical' about killing people instead of talking about their actual subject.

You really shouldn't tar all ex-military with the same brush (especially not a green/brown one, as a lot of them have had enough of sporting those colours)