To not want to moderate my language in front of these children?

[notanumber]

I am a teacher (Secondary in inner London).

Contrary to popular belief, teachers mostly don't clock off at half past three and are in school for a good while after the pupils have left.

This means that for those teachers who are also parents, they cannot collect their children straight from their school but have to make other arrangements with childminders/after school clubs etc.

However, my teaching colleague has children who attend the nearby primary school and he chooses to have his children (about 7 and 9) walk up to the school we teach in and and hang about in the staffroom until he is ready to go (usually about 90 minutes).

The school is short of space, many people don't have their own classrooms, and in any case classrooms are often used after the end of the offical day for twilight or revision lessons.

Therefore, the staffroom is very very busy in the hour or so after the final bell. Lots of people working (marking or planning), some people doing the networking stuff (talking to HOYs about particular pupils, calling parents, discussing upcoming lessons with their department) and others just relaxing and gossiping.

Basically it is full. Full of teachers who have got to the end of the day and dealing with all the stuff they have to do or just blowing off steam.

Teahing is a stressful job and sometimes shouting, "cunting top set year 11 make me want to kill myself!" is necessary to maintain sanity. This is extreme though, but many people do swear and discuss non-child friendly things fairly routinely.

Ok, after all that, here comes the AIBU!

On occasion, when there has been some colourful language the teacherparent
has been known to admonish with, "Language! Do you mind? There are children in here?"

The thing is, there shouldn't be children in the staffroom IMO. The clue is in the name - it's a staffroom, not a crèche.

It is the one space in the school where you can let you guard down and say what you like. especially if it's "after hours".

AIBU to think that if he doesn't want his children to hear "language" then he should make proper arrangements for them?

[notanumber]

Sorry, x-posts with Pixie who said it much more eloquently than me!

[notanumber]

jenandberry - It's not routine for people to say cunting. I did say earler in the thread that I may have given the impression that this is being done all the time, and this is not the case.

However. A large state school in a disadvantaged area of inner London.... It is what it is, y'know.

On the whole the staff are pretty happy I think. It's a great job, but it can be immensely frustrating.

[Goblinchild]

All staff need to know about my daughter's condition. It's to make sure that she doesn't die whilst she's at school.

It needs to be on the staff room wall so that they are aware of the procedures in place, and so that supply teachers are aware when they get to the school.



We have that too pixie, photos and info on the boards so that everyone, teachers, TAs, supply cover, parent helpers, anyone who is in contact with the children needs to know and be aware.
Some of us are trained, some just need to know that if child X is grumpy and uncommunicative they may just be a pissed-off 4 year old or may be about to slide into a coma.
So the untrained are aware they need to get help. Fast.

[weegiemum]

UAM - you cannot compare a secondary school to university. For one thing, you are teaching adults, which is totally different (I know, because I was a secondary teacher and now teach adults, though at a different level to you - I do basic literacy for over-18s who can't read and write and count).

I'm amazed how many people are surprised teachers are all sweary. A class of 30 x 15 year-olds can be very hard work sometimes, and everyone lets off steam in different ways. IME< secondary teachers are quite a "hard" bunch, and there can often be quite a "laddish" culture in some areas - as a female Geography teacher, I have felt this quite a lot (I do sometimes wear cords but I don't have a beard.

Noticeboards etc in a large secondary serve an important purpose,- logistics of communication are more complex and a note on the board in the morning saying "Pupil Y in class 3c's granny died yesterday" can be most helpful.

[UnseenAcademicalMum]

At university, a student will have maybe 5 or 6 lecturers per module and around 8 modules per year. We also visiting lecturers and the like too. I'd hate to think my child's safety relied on the supply teacher having bothered to read the notice board!

[poodlerockin]

I don't think the issue is the swearing.

The issue is bringing children to work with you.

This wouldn't be allowed in any other place of work for good reason - because you're there to work, and possibly for insurance / health and safety reasons too.

And if everyone did it, it would be quite frankly ridiculous.

The teacher needs to sort out childcare, or leave at 3.30 or whenever school finishes, to look the children AT HOME.

[Ohforfoxsake]

They are kids and they shouldn't hear it. If you have a problem with his childcare arrangements then tell him its not appropriate. Its not their fault and you and your colleagues shouldn't subject them to it.

Should a colleague take offence to the swearing you might be setting yourself up for a misconduct disciplinary. Swearing in the workplace isn't appropriate. Nor is swearing around children.

Have a quiet word and ask if its really appropriate for them to be there. What's not to stop everyone doing the same? Good for him for setting the precedent. You'll all save a fortune in after-school care!

I'm not anti-swearing BTW. There's a time and a place. Work isn't it.

[jenandberry]

I have taught in inner city schools and did see staff acting in the manner that was described. We did recognise however that this was a cause for concern and a sign that we were not getting something right.

I think most teachers have cried, again this is often a sign that something is wrong. Either staff or working too hard, discipline is a problem. staff are handdling discipline wrong or they feel unsupported.

I work in a school almost devoid of laddish culture - the senior management is made up of powerful women and quite arty men. It sets the tone for the school! It is an odd school. We have members of staff that release stress by listening to classical music loudly

[mamasz]

YABU and also really rude. You are a teacher! Set the example. I sure wouldn't want someone like you around my children or myself!

[UnseenAcademicalMum]

I have not said anything to imply that your daughter's condition does not need to be taken seriously. I have said that I don't think communication via notice boards is the way to handle confidential issues. Even if children are not in the staff room, other people such as work men, cleaners etc, who don't need to know the info are in the staff room. Not everyone is happy to have everything on a notice board, especially I'd it is sensitive e.g. family problems etc etc etc.

Thanks for the personal attack though :-(

[blinks]

yanbu

[Goblinchild]

Pixie, I know how scary it is to rely on others on a daily basis to keep your child safe and alive.
Sometimes other people's inability to see the fear it engenders makes one want to swear or yell very loudly, or wish they had first-hand experience of what you face.
So don't sweat the swearing online, you wouldn't do it in school.

[ENormaSnob]

yanbu

[UnseenAcademicalMum]

BTW goblin, I've had a child on hospital with a serious allergic reaction because someone failed to read the notice board. Please don't make assumptions. Thank you.

[Loshad]

UAM, you really cannot compare teaching undergrads to bottom set Y9/y10 - I've done both, was an academic for many years and did have the odd lecture where i came out fuming at their rudeness. BUT it is in no way near the scale of how vehemently unpleasant some schoolaged students can be when you insist they engage with science (or whatever). I have worked in a very tough school - and staff regularly would be swearing or crying in the staffroom, and in fact the only time i was really reduced to tears was when i had had bottom set Y9, they had been really vile and i was desperate to let off steam in the science office - one of my colleagues had a student in there who spent the whole time smirking at me - i had to divert to a lab in order to blub my eyes out!
(HoD did insist on protocol after that and students were to be seen in labs and office left free for staff).
In my current school there is little swearing or crying - but i'm now teaching in a leafy middle class comp in a wealthy town - light years away from the stress of a poorly managed comp in a tough area.
Anyway back to the OP, your colleague is being totally unreasonable, and needs to pay for childcare like the rest of us. What on earth does he do during staff/departmental meetings? do they tag along to those as well, or are they left unsupervised?
The issue of confidentiality is huge here as well, agree with pixie, and others - we have vulnerable students' photos up on the wall - they may have serious conditions/allergies/have moved away from violent adults and all staff need to know who they are quickly - you simply cannot compare this to adults in a lecture hall - they may come and go as they wish and you have a very different duty of care to them.
and pixie - no fu*king swearing on this thread

[toeragsnotriches]

You're not being unreasonable. It's a massively pressurised job and you need 'let off' time. You spend nearly 8 hours a day acting the part and you need space to let your hair down. If he doesn't like the language and is offended by it that's different to wanting you to change your behaviour for his kids.

I used to hang out in the staffroom (as a primary school pupil, in a secondary school staffroom) when my mum had to stay after work for a meeting or something and she never expected staff to moderate themselves for me or my brother or the other teachers' kids that happened to be there.

However, there could also be sensitive matters you need to discuss openly with other teachers about pupils. Or phone calls home you have to make that would not be suitable for younger children to overhear. I think he probably needs to rethink his childcare rather than you rethinking your staffroom behaviour.

[Goblinchild]

'BTW goblin, I've had a child on hospital with a serious allergic reaction because someone failed to read the notice board. Please don't make assumptions. Thank you.'


What assumptions am I making?
My response was triggered by mamasz scolding Pixie for swearing.

[cumbria81]

YANBU

I hate it when people bring their kids into work. I don't think it's the right environment for them. I can see why the dad does it, but they shouldn't be in the staff room. that's YOUR space.

[UnseenAcademicalMum]

Goblin, the swearing which you endorsed, was a personal attack on me. The implication was that obviously I don't understand what it is like. I will not engage further with either of you as sensible, reasoned discussion is clearly not feasible.

[flooziesusie]

Children do not belong is a staff room.

full stop