To not want to moderate my language in front of these children?

[notanumber]

I am a teacher (Secondary in inner London).

Contrary to popular belief, teachers mostly don't clock off at half past three and are in school for a good while after the pupils have left.

This means that for those teachers who are also parents, they cannot collect their children straight from their school but have to make other arrangements with childminders/after school clubs etc.

However, my teaching colleague has children who attend the nearby primary school and he chooses to have his children (about 7 and 9) walk up to the school we teach in and and hang about in the staffroom until he is ready to go (usually about 90 minutes).

The school is short of space, many people don't have their own classrooms, and in any case classrooms are often used after the end of the offical day for twilight or revision lessons.

Therefore, the staffroom is very very busy in the hour or so after the final bell. Lots of people working (marking or planning), some people doing the networking stuff (talking to HOYs about particular pupils, calling parents, discussing upcoming lessons with their department) and others just relaxing and gossiping.

Basically it is full. Full of teachers who have got to the end of the day and dealing with all the stuff they have to do or just blowing off steam.

Teahing is a stressful job and sometimes shouting, "cunting top set year 11 make me want to kill myself!" is necessary to maintain sanity. This is extreme though, but many people do swear and discuss non-child friendly things fairly routinely.

Ok, after all that, here comes the AIBU!

On occasion, when there has been some colourful language the teacherparent
has been known to admonish with, "Language! Do you mind? There are children in here?"

The thing is, there shouldn't be children in the staffroom IMO. The clue is in the name - it's a staffroom, not a crèche.

It is the one space in the school where you can let you guard down and say what you like. especially if it's "after hours".

AIBU to think that if he doesn't want his children to hear "language" then he should make proper arrangements for them?

[NetworkGuy]

Shakirasma - sounds like your situation was entirely different, insofar as you were not in the staff room at any time, which is where this thread started. Swearing (or not) is a minor issue, because as has been said, the staff room is intended only for that set of adults, and the male teacher in the original post is simply making use of the staff room, and then expecting everyone else to accommodate the fact he has chosen to introduce his children into this staff only environment, where under normal circumstances, there would be no children whatsoever.

[Eglu]

YANBU in that he shouldn't be using the staffroom as a childcare setting.

[scottishmummy]

this is adhoc childcare that impacts upon others.he needs to sort his childcare,not be reliant in dumping them in staff room

the swearing a minor issue

imposing upon colleagues and on hoof childcare is major issue.he needs to sort like everyone else does

surprised any HT allows this

[Shakirasma]

When I was at primary my dad, who taught at the high school, used to pick is up at the local park after school about half an hour after we finished for the day.

When he was on detention duty, about once a week, we walked to the high school and waited in the foyer for him.

When we attended the same high school we met him in the foyer every day. We rarely waited more than 15 mins for him, unless he had a meeting.

So IMO YABU, it's not a new thing and it's not a big deal. It is not necessary for a teacher to stay behind hours after school has finished to swear and rant about the pupils. It's common decency not to swear in front of young children and as my dad has never sworn in his life, you are not obliged to do so in order to have a winge.

[jenandberry]

I get that, a lot of this is about basic courtesy. The man in the OP does not seem to have consulted any of the staff concerned.

I have asked the people who work around me if they mind my children being around. They would certainly never be around if there was a meeting. I think there has to be give and take.

[AnnyR]

jenandberry - the situation you are describing would be fine with me! What I don't like is when teaching staff assume I will look after their children on a regular basis and don't bother to discuss this with me in advance. After all, I am working - I wouldn't send my kids into their classroom and expect the teacher to look after them for me!

[supersewer]

Swearing is not hte issue here (although you may like to consider that some of your colleagues may not like it!)the issue is why are the children coming to the school in the first place? an odd occasion may be acceptable if other arrangements fail but not on a regular basis.

Imagine if all the staff brought their kids in!?

[jenandberry]

Anny I think it very much depends on the ethos of the school. I teach in a school which has a high number of staff children. It is not unusual therefore for the children of staff to be on the premesis. It is one of the things that attracts staff and parents to the school. Think of the Gillette advert, I likes the brand so much I bought the company. Well in this case we believe in our school so much that our children attend.

I do not expect my children to be babysat by the librarian or any other member of staff, even though one of those children is a pupil at the school. Having said that my daughter who will not be joining us for two years does use the upper school library, but only if other students are in there. She knows that she sits quietly and gets on. Sometimes I will go and work in the library as do other members of staff is she is in there and I think she may need help.

My dd also knows that she must check that no one else needs a resource before she uses it. I would always phone over and check if it was OK first. She would also not be there every day, maybe if she has a project on at school.

[AnnyR]

Just a small point. A couple of people on the thread have said that the children could be sent to the library instead of the staffroom. As a secondary school librarian myself, could I say that I would prefer not to be an unpaid babysitter for staff members' kids either! I work after school keeping the library open for our own students and staff, unless I am also at a staff meeting. Whilst I wouldn't mind a one-off occasion where a teacher asks if their kids could use the library after school, I would really object if it became a regular thing. I am not a childminder!

[fedupofnamechanging]

Only read the first 2 pages so far, but my view is that you need to shit or get off the pot. Swear if you must, but if your colleague objects then you need to tell him that it is an adult room, not an after school club and if he is not happy then he needs to take his kids elsewhere. No point moaning if you are not prepared to speak up and be honest.

I don't think it is a big deal that he has them there, but it is wrong for him to expect everyone else to adapt to suit him.

[alemci]

I must admit i don't like to hear strong language in the staff room particularly but OOH those children should not be in there IMO as confidential information is often disclosed in staff rooms about other pupils etc and it is very wrong.

[NetworkGuy]

Ohforfoxsake - "What's not to stop everyone doing the same? "

I think lack of space in the staff room, let alone the insurance and other aspects, would make it a "no chance" response if several staff were to take their children in the staff room after classes had finished.

It would be one way to ensure the Head made sure there were no children of staff members in the staff room, however, if it was done once or twice, for effect (and with some prior arrangement for the Head to need to visit the room!)

[Goblinchild]

'I will not engage further with either of you as sensible, reasoned discussion is clearly not feasible.'

That's a shame. Back to your ivory tower for you then.

[flooziesusie]

in

I belong in class, preferably english!!

[flooziesusie]

Children do not belong is a staff room.

full stop

[UnseenAcademicalMum]

Goblin, the swearing which you endorsed, was a personal attack on me. The implication was that obviously I don't understand what it is like. I will not engage further with either of you as sensible, reasoned discussion is clearly not feasible.

[cumbria81]

YANBU

I hate it when people bring their kids into work. I don't think it's the right environment for them. I can see why the dad does it, but they shouldn't be in the staff room. that's YOUR space.

[Goblinchild]

'BTW goblin, I've had a child on hospital with a serious allergic reaction because someone failed to read the notice board. Please don't make assumptions. Thank you.'


What assumptions am I making?
My response was triggered by mamasz scolding Pixie for swearing.

[toeragsnotriches]

You're not being unreasonable. It's a massively pressurised job and you need 'let off' time. You spend nearly 8 hours a day acting the part and you need space to let your hair down. If he doesn't like the language and is offended by it that's different to wanting you to change your behaviour for his kids.

I used to hang out in the staffroom (as a primary school pupil, in a secondary school staffroom) when my mum had to stay after work for a meeting or something and she never expected staff to moderate themselves for me or my brother or the other teachers' kids that happened to be there.

However, there could also be sensitive matters you need to discuss openly with other teachers about pupils. Or phone calls home you have to make that would not be suitable for younger children to overhear. I think he probably needs to rethink his childcare rather than you rethinking your staffroom behaviour.

[Loshad]

UAM, you really cannot compare teaching undergrads to bottom set Y9/y10 - I've done both, was an academic for many years and did have the odd lecture where i came out fuming at their rudeness. BUT it is in no way near the scale of how vehemently unpleasant some schoolaged students can be when you insist they engage with science (or whatever). I have worked in a very tough school - and staff regularly would be swearing or crying in the staffroom, and in fact the only time i was really reduced to tears was when i had had bottom set Y9, they had been really vile and i was desperate to let off steam in the science office - one of my colleagues had a student in there who spent the whole time smirking at me - i had to divert to a lab in order to blub my eyes out!
(HoD did insist on protocol after that and students were to be seen in labs and office left free for staff).
In my current school there is little swearing or crying - but i'm now teaching in a leafy middle class comp in a wealthy town - light years away from the stress of a poorly managed comp in a tough area.
Anyway back to the OP, your colleague is being totally unreasonable, and needs to pay for childcare like the rest of us. What on earth does he do during staff/departmental meetings? do they tag along to those as well, or are they left unsupervised?
The issue of confidentiality is huge here as well, agree with pixie, and others - we have vulnerable students' photos up on the wall - they may have serious conditions/allergies/have moved away from violent adults and all staff need to know who they are quickly - you simply cannot compare this to adults in a lecture hall - they may come and go as they wish and you have a very different duty of care to them.
and pixie - no fu*king swearing on this thread

[UnseenAcademicalMum]

BTW goblin, I've had a child on hospital with a serious allergic reaction because someone failed to read the notice board. Please don't make assumptions. Thank you.

[ENormaSnob]

yanbu