in thinking jesus can NOT cure homosexuality as it is NOT an illness

[thefinerthingsinlife]

christian lady has written a book claiming jesus can cure homosexuality

I'm not getting into the debate of wether there is a God/Jesus etc. It just this has really mad me angry, how can you cure something that is NOT an illness. I find this extremely insulting and judgemental.

Lenin - of course not. I just mean that a birth certificate contains your alleged biological parents. It can't be subsequently changed to put a loving stepfather down instead of a 'cocklodger' biological father. More's the pity maybe but there you go!

Also the right of everyone to know their biological parents was the principle behind removing anonimity from sperm donors.

I don't know why you said "Next" like that. I am all for loving families no matter what they look like and indeed my sister is gay, wants children one day and will be a fab mum.

I was merely making the point that an egg and a sperm are required to make a baby and there's no point denying that or pretending to misunderstand someone making that point in order to prove how right on we all are.

Lenin - re the twins, you are no doubt correct! Good point!

Knitting-are your brothers identical twins? If they are, then any differences between them will be due to environmental factors as they share the same genes. If homosexuality was 100% down to genetics then if one identical twin was gay then we would expect the other to also be gay in 100% of cases.

OK - Let me set this straight. I do not think your life is inferior or wrong. My sister is gay, I have gay friends, as I said in a previous post I don't know whether one is born gay or not and I DON'T CARE! If two consenting adults love each other then that's bloody brilliant in my view and also it's no-one else's business.

I fully support gay civil marriage and gay civil marriage in any religious institution which wants to conduct it. I support the exact same employment rights for gay couples in terms of pensions etc as straight couples.

I was merely getting vexed at your good self, and others, deliberately being obtuse at what Lady was saying which was you need an egg and a sperm to make a baby. FACT.

However it takes a whole lot more to make a loving family and loving families come in all different varieties.

End of.

That said, even if the causes of homosexuality were environmental it would not mean that people choose to be gay.

Lenin - I know which is why I said I didn't agree with everything she was saying.

I appreciate that, sorry this thread is moving faster than I can type!

Oh think I need to bow out or get better at joining in fast moving threads

But Rhinestone, if a hetero couple are infertile and use donor sperm and eggs, that's not reflected on the birth cert either. In most cases the birth cert gives the names of the two adults who will love and rear the child.

Lenin, God is pretty much MY life-yet it is continuously reduced in everyday life. That's fine-like I've said free will to all, it doesn't mean for one second I expect some feeble apologist to step up for what I stand for.

If you are gay/want to be gay/think you're gay, then good for you. I don't really know what you're expecting people to say.

By feeble apologist I don't mean you Rhine, sorry I just read it back! I appreciate your comprehension of what I was saying.

Knitting I felt the same about the 'gay gene' and the implications that brings. The article I read had to do with genetic engineering our children so we could ensure that hereditary diseases weren't passed on and in males, they have found the gene.

at Lady! Don't worry!

I think we are all agreeing that if you are gay then that's fine. But not everyone agrees that you are born that way. And as Lenin said, so what. If you're different, you're different.

And as to whether something is 'natural', well, flying, scuba diving, contact lenses, pom bears, dentures, foot spas and feisty online parenting forums are not 'natural'. But who would want to live in a world without any of those?!!!!

alemci: SGF Brandon was a professor of comparative religion at University of Manchester.

An it harm none do what ye wilt.

Or as Mrs Patrick Campbell said, "It doesn't matter what you do in the bedroom as long as you don't do it in the streets and frighten the horses."

I don't really know what you're expecting people to say.

I would imagine - nothing because its not their business, and certainly not 'Jesus can cure you'!

I can live without foot spas. I have yet to take one out of its box.

I'm pretty sick of having to type out this explantion when people could just google gay and evolution, as people who work in evolutionary biology have explained so many times why homosexuality is an important adaptive strategy for the survival of the species.

I will type it out anyway as Lenin is having such a hard time.

An evolutionary adaptive strategy is measured in terms of inclusive fitness. That is, whether or not an individual's genes can be reproduced in the next generation in an individual who themselves reaches adulthood and is capable of reproducing.

Example: Two straight sisters marry two straight brothers. Each couple has 2 children and so 4 adults are supporting 4 children. A situation of scarcity happens (as it so often did in the human past) and the 4 adults expend more energy (walking further to gather etc) to gain less food. They cannot support get enough energy (food) to feed the four children and the children die. No genes survive to adulthood.

Example 2: One straight sister marries a straight man and the other sister marries the man's sister. The straight couple has 2 children which are raised by both couples. In a time of scarcity, 4 adults can gather enough food to feed 6 people, and the children survive. As the children are nieces of the gay sisters, each gay sister is passing on 25% of her genes to each child.

There are lots of more nuanced ways of this working - people who are gay most of the time but have sex for reproductive reasons would have an excellent strategy because they wouldn't get pregnant accidently and could space births to ensure resources were available for each child to survive. The average birth spacing in a 'natural' group of humans is 4 years, and this has to be explained by not having heterosexual sex for most of the time as the period where pregnancy is impossible because of extensive breastfeeding is only about 10 months on average.

Where homosexuality is banned, people find ways of enforcing chastity - priests, nuns, situations where second sons have to leave the tribe, or all younger sisters are not allowed to marry and must help the older one raise her children. Homosexuality is nature's way of reducing clutch sizes. If every woman went around having sex with a husband all the time, it is hard to see in the past how children would have been fed.

Sorry, they're fraternal twins.