bulling on mumsnet.

[threefeethighandrising]

Yes, this is a thread about a thread. Or lots of threads in fact. So shoot me.

I'm shocked saddened by the level of bullying that goes on, particularly in AIBU.

I'm not complaining about people speaking their minds. One of the things I love about mumsnet is frank exchanges, that people can say what they want.

What worries me is a nasty group mentality - people ganging up on a poster - usually a new one - and picking apart their story and being absolutely, unforgivably nasty to them.

We teach our DCs to stand up to bullies. Well, how do we stand up to these ones?

I've recommended mumsnet to many people over the years, as a place you can find fantastic support, frank and honest opinions. Those kinds of threads make me question whether this is a place I should be inviting any one other than those with a very think skin. Which is a real shame IMO.

I'm not really asking AIBU. I am asking how we can stand up to bullies on mumsnet. I've posted it here because it happens here a lot.

and yes, agree little dragon

In general, I'm of the opinion that if you don't like it, you should avoid the thread or the forum. People are more outspoken on the internet than in face to face interactions.

However the thing that really pisses me off on MN is the troll-hunting. And that does have a really bullying aspect. This looking for inconsistencies in a poster's story, making snidey comments and faces. It strikes me as a kind of showing off. If you think someones trolling, either ignore the thread or report it. Don't make a big deal out of how clever you are or how you're protecting the forum from trolls.

So I've started reporting all troll-hunting posts I come across.

I've seen it a little bit, I don't like it when people are rounded on and then all the in jokes start flying about. Apart from anything else it's s bit tedious.

I do believe that in here and in rl a lot of people bandy the term "bullying" about incorrectly and use it whenever someone disagrees with them or challenges them on something. My sister does it, hates it when I'm straight up with her but is the Queen of passive aggression.

My pet hate is simpery, fluffy gushy types who aren't straight talking. I's rather someone who was a bit narky but honest than fluffy passive aggressive bullshit anyday. The use of is often used in a passive aggressive way on here.

There is probably only 1 person I steer well clear of, I do think she' s bully, quite abusive and has quite a few undealt with issues! There are also a few "well knowns" who loads of other posters seem to suck up to and I've never understood the adulation tbh.

I'm not in any clique, neither have I ever been on a meet up, and there are posters who I agree with on some threads but not on others, isn't that just normal life?

Thanks slim..

I expect a lot of people post on AIBU because they are more likely to get an answer. I wouldn't have guessed for a minute the amount of bile that a perfectly innocent question can unleash, when I first encountered AIBU. I think people forget all manners and see it as a sort of mum's version of a badger baiting arena.

It gives lots of bored ladies a kick.

dragon, I am sure you have been reasonable on that thread. I think the problems is that reasonable comments just get swallowed up by the very unreasonable ones and go unnoticed

Yes, derby, I think that's exactly it. But I do think that it makes MN a less nice place when people are quick to assume they're being 'bullied', or that groups of posters who all happen to agree are deliberately banding together to bully people.

It's just a really unnecessary response, imo, and it makes this place nastier to post in.

I wouldn't say there is bullying on here - and certainly no worse than most parenting forums.

Am I alone in thinking troll hunters actually behave like trolls 99% of the time? I've seen several forums collapse due to the suspicion of all newcomers, you can feel the twitch in the regulars "back in 1922 we had a troll attack and you post in a mildly similar fashion to them so it MUST be you!" as soon as one person has declared it, the followers join in and the newbie has no choice but to leave because they are made to feel as welcome as a fart in a lift. Lovely.

Not seen it happen here like that partly because ive not been around long enough and partly because im avoiding anything even vaguely controversial but it is universal to all forums imo.

If you want funny troll hunters you should look at some of the other parenting sites you'll be glad of a pelvic floor!

The few times I have seen someone be bullying, they have been picked up on and usually got in a snit and deleted their own posts or threads, or mnhq has deleted them.

If any post makes a personal attack if you report it mnhq will delete.

TSC

That poster repeatedly told you her problem was with people who claim benefits with no intention of getting a job, and continue to add to their family with no intention of finding means to support them independently. You refused to accept that and kept using examples of single mothers and disabled parents to twist her words and support your agenda.

Then you started with the insults about her appearance, you were the only poster to do so despite the fact that many others disagreed with her.

And now you are calling me thick.
You are seriously fucking irritating, dude

is this a thread about a thread?

have I missed sopmething?

ok, so have read through this and am a bit late to the party but...
I do find that the analysing of everything a little wearing on here at the moment.
the other day someone asked about standards in schools, the first or second response was why are you interested, why the fuck shouldn't the person be interested?
it is almost like you need to be so specific in the way you word your op in order for you to get answers rather than seemingly snidey comments.

Now I am not talking about wierd posts that seem very complicated had my fingers burned with CVQ and avoid those threads as I don't know what to believe any more but really the nit picking with seemingly straight forward posting is (for me) quite tiresome.

I don't know whether this is a thread about a thread, but I agree with MinxofManc. There seems to be a little clique on here - whenever one starts, they all join in with their in jokes, and woe betide you if you dare to disagree with one of them. All very pathetic, really. I agree with some posters sometimes on things that I'd disagree with them on others. Surely that's more normal than sticking up for your cyber-mates regardless of what they're saying?

Someone - one of the lauded MN regulars - did make a personal attack on me on a thread about nurseries, and MN did delete the offending posts at my request. It was utterly vile and utterly unwarranted, as MNHQ agreed.

Agree with donkey derby, dragon - your observations were heard but were overwhelmed by very aggressive posts, by the same posters, who repeatedly said the same thing (battering = bullying), poured scorn on the OP's submitted details - when they were entirely consistent - and were generally very nasty and looooooong - pages and pages and pages. After the first page I thought poor woman, this is bizarre, and patiently scrolled through to get to the rational posts (of which yours were one of some) - but the battering just went on and on and ON.

The woman was ANGRY when she posted - imo, justifiably so. It may be a moot point but when angry you are actually quite vulnerable and may also not word things in the way you would when calmer. My bet is she didn't reply because she was taken aback and confused (ok LeQueen, back off) at the torrent of very aggressive posts that poured in, accusing her of this and that, very obviously baying for her blood - horrible.

If you don't agree with someone, say what you have to say once, not repeatedly, and say it well, not aggressively. If the OP doesn't respond to your satisfaction then accept that and move on. Posts like yours dragon were balanced and imo appropriate but the majority were vicious and entirely unnecessary.

I am one of the adults who has been bullied in adult life and as a result I do see with clarity when bullying is taking place, whereas someone who has not experienced it will not necessarily spot it. However, I take note of the posts from the woman who was bullied at school and at work and finds accusations of bullying on here inappropriate and exaggerated, an insult to what she has experienced. Fair enough, good point. I also take note of accusations of having a victim mentality. That's a hard one to crack if you'e been ground to powder by consistent bullying and I don't think people will necessarily appreciate the effects of that unless they have experienced it first hand or at close quarters. I wouldn't wish it on anyone but sometimes I do wonder if people who sneer at what they perceive to be a victim mentality would just have a short taste of vicious bullying to appreciate what it does to your psyche.

I am NOT saying that the 'fired' poster was viciously bullied to powder (for those of you who don't read posts properly, much less my laboriously long posts ) but I am saying she was bullied. That post could have run the usual course of most other threads quite easily at any other time - some agreeing, some disagreeing - but for some reason it went up in flames.

Come off it, TSC
You baited and baited with comments about her being a porn actor, a pole dancer, claiming you could see her nipples, saying she looked 'hard faced', until she retaliated and replied to your 'English Rose' comment by calling you fat and pale.

I thought your behaviour on that thread was bullying. And you need to grow up and access debates in a more mature way.

I'm undecided whether its bullying or not to be honest. I don't see individuals being targeted, followed from thread to thread or spoken about and badmouthed (which I would regard as bullying), more a blanket 'how vile, condescending and patronising can I be '.

AIBU has defintiely changed over the last few months with the emergence of several new 'names' who seem to haunt the AIBU threads looking for people to attack. The level of vitriol, purposeful misunderstanding and viscious condemnation has reached a level I have never seen in 5+ years on here. These 'names' regularly cross a line imo and do so consistently on multiple threads posted by various people. It's sad, I just don't see the need to be so vile.

I have re-evaluated the way I post in recent weeks after a couple of 'spats' of my own. I no longer post on the threads when I see certain 'names'. I won't be starting any AIBU threads again, I won't post unless I have something constructive to say and I am trying to construct my posts so that I would not be ashamed for my mother/MIL to see them.

smoking, that does make sense, I was just upset about that thread because it did seem we were all being tarred with the same brush.

I think the OP has simmered down, now, too, so hopefully it will all calm down.

I didn't think it was bullying, but there was some unnecessary troll-hunting and that is really nasty.

Like in all walks of life there are bullies, nasty bitches who enjoy being mean, sadly it is the same old faces over and over on here that do it.

It's not bullying. There is bitching on here, there are harsh words said to OPs, some of them unwarranted, but to call it bullying is to belittle real misery making bullying when it does go on in people's lives.

By definition it isn't bullying (and just because the receiver calls it bullying don't make it so...) because, as others have said, the same person is not systematically targetted with no reason. OPs are told to fuck off, get a grip, do one, whatever, depending on what they're posting, not because "oooh it's that there BulliedPoster posting again, let's all go and gang up on her"

"the other day someone asked about standards in schools, the first or second response was why are you interested, why the fuck shouldn't the person be interested?"

and why the fuck shouldn't a poster be allowed to ask the question? That's not bullying, its trying to engage with the op. Or it was to me when I asked the question. If that makes me a bully then yes, obviously Mumsnet is choc full of bullies because I think most posters, like me, behave reasonably well most of the time.

tried to engage with her about how many taxes she'd paid in the 3 years between leaving full time education and having her first child. she refused to do this and went a bit bonkers

No. I was just sick of you baiting me with comments about my looks. Hardly bonkers. I'm not trying to cause another fight with you by the way at all, as I apologise for what I said to you and I stick by that. but really if you keep poking someone with a stick eventually they will bite back, it's human nature.

And taxes that I've paid had nothing to do with what I was saying, I can't be bothered to write it all again, but what MoreCrackThanHarlem said is about the summary of it.