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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Benefit Bashing

823 replies

Kendodd · 18/02/2011 16:40

A mum I know and her DP with two children live in a two bed (nice) HA house. Neither of them work and have not worked for as long as I've known them (two years) I don't know about before then. She has told me they are trying for another baby, not to get a bigger house or anything, just because they want four children eventally. I would love four children but can't have that many because for one we just can't afford four.

AIBU to feel a bit pissed off that they can have more children and I can't or am I just a jealous benefit basher.

ps They are both nice and don't have a flatscreen TV.

OP posts:
DiamondDoris · 18/02/2011 18:04

I think she should get some serious ambitions rather than the ambition of wanting 4 children. I stopped at 2 because I want a life as well as children.

MillyR · 18/02/2011 18:06

No, BFH, I simply think that as a society we have a responsibility to pay for primary carers (usually the mother) to raise their children. I don't care if someone is a single mother because she got pregnant by accident, on purpose, whether her partner died, left her, left her when she was 8 weeks pregnant or when the child was 8 weeks old.

I am happy to pay for people to do the job of raising children.

I cannot be arsed with all this hair splitting over who is and is not a deserving single mother. They are all deserving.

BooyFuckingHoo · 18/02/2011 18:08

I'm not sure i understand your point about the relationships splitting up not being unforseeable? what has that got to do with supporting the primary carer?

curlymama · 18/02/2011 18:12

Milly, they are not all deserving! Not by any stretch!

Boo, you are right, it doesn't do anyone any good to feel jealousy or resentment towards others. I can see why it would be hard though, because on the outside it can very easily appear that someone who doesn't work gets as much to live on as someone who does work, but they don't have to pay to get to work, or be bothered to go. And they get they added benefit of FSM, free prescriptions, or dental care. So they do, in reality, end up better off than people that work.

MillyR · 18/02/2011 18:13

I suppose the point I'm making is that it is very, very difficult for a woman to be entirely financially self sufficent and have children during her fertile years.

Yet even for women who make it into a temporarily secure position of having a partner with a well paid job, that isn't really some kind of moral justification for having kids based on not being a benefits claimaint, because the whole relationship could collapse at any point and the woman is back to benefits or more usually a mix of benefits and work.

So I think it is stupid to applaud one group of women for managing to get a man to support his own children temporarily, as if that makes them in some way morally superior to women who just raise children from the start alone.

We should just accept that we need to be responsible for raising children as a society, and stop expecting mothers to have ultimate responsibility for everything.

rinabean · 18/02/2011 18:13

I don't understand the people who complain about this. They're better off? You do it too then. If you won't, then actually you're better off. Even if the thing you're better off in is pride, if you value pride more than money then you're better off and there is absolutely nothing to whinge about.

MillyR · 18/02/2011 18:15

CM, I agree that some parents aren't deserving because they treat their children badly. Those people should be reported to social services.

BooyFuckingHoo · 18/02/2011 18:17

"on the outside it can very easily appear that someone who doesn't work gets as much to live on as someone who does work"

i think that is a huge part of why there is such stigma attatched to benefits. on the outside it appears. people make assumptions based on what they want to think rather than based on what is actually happening, and no-one on benefits should have to tell their story to joe public just to prove themselves worthy of the help.

BooyFuckingHoo · 18/02/2011 18:18

ah yes, milly, i totally see your point. i agree.

HeartShapedValiumSandwich · 18/02/2011 18:18

millyr, that's a bit ridiculous. I'm in the situation starlight describes. x refuses point blank to pay maintenance, and for reasons that don't occur to people with no personal experience, it's not always a simple matter to extract money from a stone.

There is a stigma to being on benefits in respectable circles, definitely. Even if you speak nicely, keep your children clean and well-behaved and you don't ever, ever own anything too nice or go anywhere nice! If being on benefits is so great, try it out for a while. Funny how people never actually do that though. Some people may look down on me (some, and they may) but on a personal level I refuse to feel shame. I paid taxes for 13 years, my children's father has paid taxes for 20 years now and the fact that he won't pay any money directly to us is HIS shame.

ShirleyKnot · 18/02/2011 18:19

Rinabean. I think I love you a little bit.

OneMoreChap · 18/02/2011 18:20

MillyR

No, BFH, I simply think that as a society we have a responsibility to pay for primary carers (usually the mother) to raise their children.

Wow.

I don't.

I think those who choose to have children should pay for 'em. That's mother and father for what that's worth.

I had 2 kids, I paid for them.
Why should I pay for someone else's kids, too, if they could work?

ScramVonChubby · 18/02/2011 18:21

'Milly, they are not all deserving! Not by any stretch!

cannot see it matters: regardless of parents there is not a single child who isn't deserving sowe have to support the family unit, or bring in social services which is a loser for all from cost, long term outcomes etc and should be prevented whenever possible from early input.

HeartShapedValiumSandwich · 18/02/2011 18:22

Boofuckinghoo, yes people do make a lot of assumptions. People assume that because I'm on one parent family allowance (an Irish benefit) then I must also be getting Rent Supplement (I'm not). They assume that my children's dentistry is all paid for. It's not. Very very little is covered and my parents have paid for their dentist trips but yet I have had comments from people who erroneously assume I can stroll into the dentists whenever I like. People just assume, without knowing. It's a really chinese whispers kind of thing. Nobody knows but they can't push back down the begrudgery.

curlymama · 18/02/2011 18:22

They can be financially better off Rinabean, it's a fact. It doesn't mean they are well off, just better off. And it doesn't always work that way, but it does quite often. Morally they are better off, but that's about it.

Some people value money more than pride. Some people work for minimum wage in a carppy job, do you think they automatically feel proud just because they take home a wage? Or is there the chance that they feel like crap because all they have done is clean someone elses dirty plates or toilets all day?

Milly, Some people aren't deserving because they simply can't be arsed to show their children that it is better for society if they work. They might be lovely to their children, that doesn't mean they deserve to have other people pay to bring them up for them.

MillyR · 18/02/2011 18:23

HSVS, yes I can appreciate that women end up in that situation. I have friends who are in that situation, because as I keep saying, it happens all the time.

If someone has a child with a man and doesn't consider that it is fairly likely they will be left literally holding the baby, then they have a very naive outlook on life.

HeartShapedValiumSandwich · 18/02/2011 18:23

I agree ScreamVonChubby. Shocking though this may be, I believe that the poor and uneducated should be allowed to breed too.

ShirleyKnot · 18/02/2011 18:23

Shall we sterilise the feckless poor?

usualsuspect · 18/02/2011 18:25

yes,anyone on less than £3000000000000 a year should not be allowed to breed

HeartShapedValiumSandwich · 18/02/2011 18:25

Hmm I never thought that my relationship was invincible. I never, ever thought that.

But I didn't think that it would turn violent and I didn't think that my x would refuse point blank to pay maintenance. I'm not naive at all, but you can't control other people's behaviour, you can only control your own.

The thing about being a mother is that you put your children first and if sucking up a bit of shame for a while is what will give them a stable few years, then it's what I have to do.

MillyR · 18/02/2011 18:27

CM, I don't think that working outside the home makes someone a better parent than someone being a SAHM. You do. I am happy to pay for single women to bring up children. You aren't.

It's a bit like the war in Afghanistan. I don't want to pay for it, but we live in a democracy so maybe you do which means I have to pay too.

StarlightPrincess · 18/02/2011 18:30

Milly, Some people aren't deserving because they simply can't be arsed to show their children that it is better for society if they work. They might be lovely to their children, that doesn't mean they deserve to have other people pay to bring them up for them.

I agree, curlymama.

MillyR · 18/02/2011 18:30

HSVS, I don't think you have any reason to feel ashamed, and I don't think you are in any way responsible for the behaviour of your former partner. I don't think any woman should have to justify why they have ended up as a single mother. I don't care whether or not they once had the support of a man or not.

rinabean · 18/02/2011 18:30

curlymama, I don't understand your point. Yes, people have different priorities. There is no point in whining about how glorious life on benefits is because anyone can give up and try and survive on that pittance if they want to. You and others keep bleating that sometimes you're financially better off on benefits. You're also insinuating that you value money above other things. Well, do it then! What are you waiting for? Don't just sit and whine! If benefits is the best lifestyle, do it! If you don't, then it's not, so shut up.

I totally agree with you about crappy jobs. I also think that working doesn't automatically lift people's spirits, contrary to the drivel spouted by those with non-soul-destroying jobs. But that's not what we're talking about. This isn't a discussion on the benefits of anarcho-communism, we are discussing how the benefits system works right now Wink

StarlightPrincess · 18/02/2011 18:31

But let's get back to the point anyway. This thread isn't about single mothers anyway.

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