in telling off a stranger's child in a museum?

[ZillionChocolate]

I was in a museum yesterday and was the other side of an exhibit to a family of two boys, maybe 6 and 8 and two older parents/grandparents. The exhibit was a big stone coffin which was roped off, but at a low level and only about 10 inches away. There were small signs that said "do not touch".

One of the boys was running his hands all over the top of the stone, just before we walked away, I said "you're not allowed to touch it". My husband later said I shouldn't have said anything as the father/grandfather was also touching it. WABI?

off not of

Karma - am interested to see your reaction to this. I work in a zoo (have name-changed, as anyone working there will recognise it and don't want to give up my secret identity on my other name!).
We have free-ranging geese - birds who are allowed to wander round the site. It is better for them than being caged, they breed well, and most of the visitors enjoy the opportunity to watch them without bars in the way. There are signs everywhere explaining that the birds couldn't fly, and don't like being chased, so please don't. The number of parents who stand back and watch their kids pursuing the birds round the lawn is staggering. In this instance, while I am not for a moment suggesting that it would be something you might let your kids do, do you not think there is every reason for other adults intervening, despite the presence of the 'responsible' adult? Especially in the absence of keeping staff? (I have also been told where to go when suggesting an adult stop her child from hounding the birds - although I never get this when in uniform. I carried right on and told the child off depsite being there on a day off and so having no apparent connection with the place. I mean, honestly!) Incidently, in its most extreme form, it cost us near on a grand to replace some netting which some little b**r ripped holes in with a stick, while, guess what, Mummy stood by and admired. We know she saw but the keeper who saw it (and saw her watching the kid) was too far away to get there quickly and have words, and by the time he got there they'd scarpered.

It is surprisingly common for parents to let their kids do all sorts of things round the zoo, which often have an impact on animal welfare (I'm thinking banging on the glass of the great apes to get a reaction from them for example) which have no impact on the safety of the child but in time have huge impacts on the animal welfare. As staff, we very much appreciate it when other adults intervene if we are not there and the parent is doing nothing.

I'm really interested because I totally understand your willingness to intervene if the child is in harm's way, but wondered how you felt if the child themself is not at risk, but their behaviour has impacts on, in this case, the animals, and their parents do not seem to see this as an issue and are therefore doing nothing?

If someone is very well informed, then I'd put them in the 'expert' category. I was using that as a loose term to mean people who are knowledgeable about a specific issue. For non expert, I simply mean all those who have an opinion, but no special interest. It's impossible on here, to know 100% the degree of knowledge that any one person has, unless they specifically state it

I would have no problem with an adult correcting my kids in public, so long it was done nicely. Would make the kids think twice about such behavious in future.

I don't think OP was BU.

dontchasethebirds In the case of an animal being harmed or threatened I would without a doubt interfere. I am honestly torn as to what people should do when the parent's refuse to make their children behave properly. I suppose that because I keep a proper eye on my DC, I have assumed that the majority do too.

For me, I think it is good manners to address comments to the adult if he/she is present.The parent should be given the opportunity to do the right thing. To do otherwise is disrespectful imo. If they refuse to make their children act with kindness towards animals then the only solution is to make them leave.

I think other people correcting children's behaviour becomes more of an issue when you have bossy adults telling children what to do, because they simply don't like something, rather than it being because the child is really behaving badly.

Karma - I would agree - bossiness is approaching rudeness so telling off children just because you don't like it is maybe not suitable. (And I'm very much of the opinion that society is becoming more intolerant of children. I think adults need to lighten up, remember that children are just children, and need to be included in things and taught how to behave eg at weddings rather than being excluded because they don't yet know).
But, I think in both the zoo and the original message, it goes/went beyond just one adult not liking it while the parent watches but doesn't mind it. You are talking more specifically about behaviour that has a more lasting effect that you have specifically been asked not to do. Parent doesn't see the issue - I think it is then absolutely ok to interfere - 'for the greater good'! If staff always saw, then great and maybe persistant offenders could be removed (from the zoo). But staff don't always see and other watchful adults are a huge help in those circumstances.
I would also add that in one zoo, a couple of years ago, an infant gorilla died, probably as a result of being fed by some kids (they were seen by a member of the public who reported it but they'd gone by the time the keeper arrived) and subsequently developing an infection - even a cold can kill a wild ape as they have no resistance. It was very ill for several days and despite intensive vet care, died. I doubt most parents would see much harm in an animal being thrown a little bit of food by their offspring but it can have catastrophic consequences. So to whoever it was who said that they are on a day off when they go out and don't bother interfering, please think again. You could make a massive difference by speaking up.

You sound like a right busybody.If he'd got out an aerosaol and was about to spray paint it, yes you might have had a point.Was it the British museum ? I was there a few months ago and most of the children DID touch stone exhibits.Picking on one little boy is hardly going to make a difference.Just makes you look like an arsehole.

If the parents are not willing to give the children appropriate boundaries then the parents are fault, NOT the bystander like OP who knows that what is being done is wrong.

Karma,
I am very sorry to say this but you are part of the problem. You set boundaries that you may think are OK for your kids but actually are not enough for yours or any other kids.

If a rope and a sign do not "do" it for your family, you need to learn.

I'm all for rebellion. Mubarak was a shit and deserved to be overthrown. But that does not give every Egyptian the right to take a bit of the sphinx home.

There are core sensibilities that if you do not get you are in the wrong. Nowt to do with the Daily Maul or the Grauniad, just being better than a sea sponge.

YANBU. I would also have said something.

Trouble is Museums nowadays are so child friendly , they encourage kids to touch and interact with everything.

In my opinion, I wouldnt have bothered to say anything. Its only a piece of stone, he wasnt poking a baby in the eye with a sharp stick.. . was he ?

I say things to kids in museums all the time (in a very friendly voice) like: "ooooh, I don't think you're meant to touch that, it might break"). With large smile.

It's not telling off, it's just giving kids and parents the benefit of the doubt - perhaps they can't read and the parent was momentarily distracted.

Don't much care if anyone judges me for it! I certainly wouldn't judge someone else for saying it to my ds, I'd thank them!

working
and that is the point
kids WANT to fit in - set the boundaries and they have something to kick against - but they MUST know where the boundaries lie and WHY.

I've seen kids of my hippy friends become used car salesmen to rebel. Perfect.

'Its only a piece of stone,'

No, it's a priceless archaeological artefact.
In the same way that the Mona Lisa isn't just a bit of paint.

YANBU

I think part of the problem here is that people are underestimating the value of the [stone] exhibits in museums.

No, one child touching it is not going to to damage it beyond repair. But lots of children touching it will do it harm.

And before anyone starts on the "if it's so fragile it shouldn't be within reach" argument, it's worth noting that these are irreplaceable items.

One day, when it is worn down from people placing their grubby fingers all over it, it will be placed in a different type of display to prevent further damage.

But why should it get to that point?

It cannot be replaced and is an important part of our history, hence why it's in the bloody museum in the first place!

im of the opinion that if it was that fucking precious that it should be more than roped off

TalkinPeace2 Please clarify as to how my boundaries are not sufficient for my children based on what you have gleaned from my posts? I really feel you are not in a position to judge this. I won't lie and say my children are impeccably behaved 100% of the time, but they are polite, respectful, kind, thoughtful children, who do behave appropriately in museums. If they didn't, then I would correct that.

I think I must be doing something right

YANBU. There were clear instructions and these boys and grandad chose to ignore them. Good for you for having the backbone to stand up to them.

She didn't have the backbone to stand up to the grandad though, did she? Just the kids

YANBU, and you weren't telling them off, merely pointing out that they aren't allowed to touch the exhibit.

Well she wasn't "standing up to the kids" was she? She was just pointing out that they had been asked not to touch.

You are very aggressive I feel.

Don't mean to sound aggressive, just stating the facts. I think it is easier to criticise children than it is adults, and given that the children were doing what their grandad was doing, the comments should have been made to him (if at all).

Karmabeliever, what is it that I did to this child that you find so offensive? I said, in his presence and the presence of his grandfather, "you're not allowed to touch it". I didn't shout, gesture, single him out, or say he was naughty.

Sorry, karma, don't have my specs on! Actually, there are many people who wouldn't contemplate using any form of authority even with children, so yes, I believe she was "standing up" and also risking a backlash from the grandad.

Zillionchoc I think karma thinks it is offensive to speak to a stranger's child if the child's parent is present.

Even if the child is doing something you find unacceptable.

You can't criticise other people at all you see. Even if they are behaving badly.