Refused a table at restaurant for having kids

[marissac]

I'm thinking of going to my local news paper to name and shame this restaurant, but would like your wise opinion on it before I do.

Today was the eve of Chinese New Year, my friends decided we should have lunch at a certain Chinese restaurant in Canary Wharf to celebrate. They et extremely busy at lunchtimes so I phoned ahead to make a reservation. Greeted by the maitre d with usual formalities, asked me what time I would like the table for etc. Then when I said it was for a party of 4 adults and 3 kids he paused. Then proceeded to tell mr they were fully booked for lunch today and that they will jot be able to fit us in AT ALL (which was strange since he was asking for my name time and phone number just a minute ago). Then I heard a female voice in the background say that there is a table free until 2, to which I immediately replied I'll take it, we will be done and your table vacated no later than 1:30.

Lo and behold this male waiter then said "don't take this the wrong way, but many customers have complained about noisy children during lunch like it's a party. We get a lot of business people here at lunchtimes. We don't mind children on the weekends, just not during the week." (please note these aren't his EXACT words in the exact order)

I could NOT believe what I heard. And to paint a clearer picture, this is our local Chinese restaurant which we have frequented roughly once a week for the past 3 yrs. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you. I will sure be taking my business elsewhere, but would like everyone to be aware of the appalling attitude and service. My kids are never rowdy or unruly, yet they are being talked about like they animals that should be left on a leash tied to a lamppost.

Sorry for the rant. I'm still fuming. Do you think it's worth going to local press? Thanks for listening and for any input.

Oh, 5 and 7, fine. That's fairly standard parenting, surely?

The kids in question, in the OP, are pre-schoolers.

I had a hidous French Mother 'insisting' on her child having good manners right in front of me when she asked the child to apologise to me and then repeatedly and systematically slapped her legs very hard until she stuttered the words out, while I frantically tried to improve on my French beyond, 'ca ne fait rien'

Back to the OP.... just don't eat there any more and don't order takeaways. Best form of protest is to vote with your wallet...

If I knew the kids in question were French kids I'd be more accepting of paying a fortune for food and sharing my dining space with kids.

Years ago in France dp and I ate a meal in a very expensive resaurant(those were the days).It was one of those meals that went on for ages and it was gorgeous. Anyhow table next to us there was a French couple with 2 young boys,honestly you wouldn't have known they were there,they didn't even need to frogmarch.

They were particularly impeccably behaved and we were mighty impressed back then. Several years on I've noticed this is the norm in France and I don't have a problem with sharing my dining space with French kids.I know I'll be able to relax whatever, kids or no kids. Errr not so in England.

I'd go even further to say it's quite entertaining watching French kids eat out in posh restaurants.Dp and I were like "just how do they do it"last time we ate out posh in France sans kids.We also marveled at the beautiful pristine white dresses a family of little girls wore that stayed pristine and white. Much as I love dd white is not a colour I'd dress her in when eating out.

See my post below - maybe that's how they do it.

Blu, yes, IME, that's exactly how they do it.

No it isn't. For a start off not all french children are impecably behaved all the time, and not all children who behave well are French.

French children often behave well at the dinner table for the simple reason that they do it 2 or 3 times a day, day in day out, week in week out.

At the school canteen the children are at the table for an hour, yes a full hour, while they eat a three course meal.

Most children will then have another hour at the table in the evening.

At weekends they will be expected to sit at the table through a longer, 2 hour lunch.

So going to a restaurant and having to sit at a table just isn't a big deal.

I don't understand the whole divide on here of those with kids and without kids with regards to restaurants.

I go to Pizza Hut type places now and again and of course I would expect children eating and for the restaurant to be louder but I wouldn't expect them to be running around and generally being a pain. I have seen some attitudes on this (and previous) threads saying that people eating at a more child orientated place, this sort of behaviour has to be put up with. Just because I may not have a child with me I don't see why my meal in Pizza Hut (for example) should be spoilt just because some parents can't control their children and don't teach them decent manners. It is not a case of no children V children at all and it's a shame that some people see it like that.

But referring to the OP, I don't have the type of job where I do business lunches but I would imagine it is not the best place for a child to be and if the restaurant wants to have a no child policy during the week then it is up to them. The OP should write a letter to management and vote with her feet, that would be better then going to the papers.

Going to the papers is a great advertisement for the restaurant as people will go because it is child free!

Absolutley Lamorna, it wouldn't do them any harm at all.
I can't believe that there are people here who think that all restaurants should be forced to accept children by law. Does that apply to other establishments?
Oh and "How do they learn how to behave in a restaurant if we never take them there??"
Duh, but taking them to the majority of restaurants that do accept children of course. We're not arguing for a blanket ban of children in eateries. Just to preserve the right of the minority that choose to be adult establishments.

OP - sorry but YABU, i dont think canary wharf is particularly child friendly during the week as it is full of business diners who don't want to be disturbed by kids.

I agree it is quite a slap in the face for you as a regular customer there, but the problem is that I imagine a lot of the revenue for this restaurant comes from the very same business diners who have complained about the noise from children. So when it comes down to choosing, they have to keep those diners happy.

Before 4 years of age,it is very difficult - have 3 very close in age. I could manage it with 1 as he was a very placid baby, but by time second came along, forget it.

I do think it is hard to get them all to behave before that age and tbh too stressful. But by 4 most children should be able to behave perfectly fine.

Also my children are boisterous - especially middle one! I have to make sure they have time every day to run around, shouting, etc outside.

Also you don't teach them how to behave in a restaurant, you do that when you are at home and sitting at the table. And they don't get down from the table when they have finished at home, they wait till we are all finished.

TBH I think the fact that they behave makes it a more enjoyable experience for them. They get lots of positive attention from waitresses, they get a lot of choice in what they choose to eat from their own menu and they get the attention of their parents.

But I really don't care if you don't want to teach your children how to behave at a meal - just don't bring them into a restaurant and expect everyone else to just put up with your children.

We sit to the table at home and always have done, so it didn't matter where we went they behaved as they did at home, which was well. Even after nursery nights dd2 would want to sit to the table me me and dd1 to join in the chat and dinner time.

I had a bf who would complain that his three dc were terrible at the table and when they did sit to the table at home they were awful and because they were awful he refused to sit to the table with them and if he did he just shouted and they ended up in tears. They were lovely dc all three of them but as he hadn't shown them how to behave it wasn't their fault.

Actually when we where all out together I think we must have had picnics and packups as I never remember it being a problem eating with them and we did have a lot of fun together

And if all children were brought up to behave appropriately in restaurants I would be annoyed at children being excluded. But as many children don't and many parents make no attempt to get their children to behave, then I think it is perfectly R for a restaurant to refuse to admit children.

I don't for one minute think that everywhere should accept children, but the assumption that all British children are awful is insulting. Some are, many are not. Nor do I think that business people should be given special priority over other diners. I am more concerned that couples or adult groups of friends out to relax have a nice time!

No one is saying all British children are awful. In fact some of us are saying some children behave very well.

However, I do think British children seem less likely than some cultures - say France -to sit with their children on a daily basis round a table having a leisurely meal. And because of this, I think they are less likely to behave well in a restaurant. In the same way a child taken to church every week for years will tend to behave much betyter in church than a child who only goes once every year.

I know that a significant minority of families don't have a dining room table - can't remember the figure. Also sale of tables has significantly reduced.

You may not think that matters. But I think it is the real reason some British children behave badly in restaurants.

Where a business relies on a particular type of clientele, then makes it makes business sense to make sure they are happy. So a restaurant you go to abroad that is full of locals and very very rarely has tourists, will give priority to the needs of locals over yours e.g. if it is usual to smoke in local restaurants, they won't try andban smoking to make you happy.

The same with restaurants that cater to business clientele. If they say to the restaurant they don't want children there, or complain if children are present, then the restaurant will ban children.

Its not a value judgement, just the business trying to make sure its income is okay.

It isn't the DCs fault in many cases. The parent hasn't made them aware that different places call for different behaviour. They expect the place to accommodate the DC. Some do and you get child friendly restaurants with play areas, but you can't make the assumption that DCs can play in all restaurants. In many the management and other customers will expect them to sit still and be reasonably quiet. It is a bit defeatist to say 'my 3 yr old can't do this', you can always start with a 5 minute drink in a cafe and work up. Taking one DC out on their own is good, more are hard work and a DC loves attention away from siblings. It really depends on whether you want to do it or not. The easy way is not to go. However, if you do go, they need appropriate behaviour or it gives all DCs a bad name.

With the restaurant in Canary Wharf, the simple fact is that a table of 7, 3 of whom are children, are unlikely to order much of the wine list.

A table of 7 adults out for a business lunch, are likely to order something from the wine list. So the restaurant will make more money that way.

Votw with your wallet if you like, but as your unused table could well be filled with drinking adults, the restaurant is likely to not give a shit. And why should they, it's a business. Not a childrens charity.

I agree. And I did take my DD and DC out to places before 4. However, personally I found posh restaurants with 3 very young children close in age too stressful, until the youngest was 4.

By the time they were 4 they all could be trusted to behave really well for a long meal.

I was helped by having a bigger age gap, but it is something you have to work at. If you don't want to work at it then stick to child friendly.
I often see people out and the adults are having their own conversation and ignoring the DCs, even if the mother is alone she may well be having a long conversation on her mobile. DCs will not sit and do nothing if bored, you do need to talk to them.

i can see why you are cross but i do think you need to consider where and what kind of place it is. if its in canary wharf then id assume its for business people really anyway? i wouldnt be so surprised

I guess the bottom line is, we Brits need to make sure our children do know how to behave in a restaurant.

Am not proud to be British when you see how badly behaved some children in the UK are.

At the end of the day you can understand why some posh places do not like kids. . . but some know how to behave and its wonderful.

I have to say I am so impressed when i go to France and Italy and the children are so good and quiet, you wouldnt know they were there. It my children ever shouted in a restaurant i would give them a good talking to.
Hence :
". . . .you must not shout in a Restaurant, people have come here to relax and have a nice peaceful meal."
"I would like to see your best table manners please "
Surely we as parents can expect them to be children, but that doesnt include shouting and crawling under the chairs and running around when eating out ? By the time they are 4-5 yrs they should know what is expected of them.
If anyone thinks i am harsh. . . .then IMHO that is why we have a nation of badly behaved youngsters !!