to think that anynoe who believes in star signs is a complete numpty?

[bettybosseye]

I mean it's so clearly such a great stinking heap of horse shit, how can anyone actually believe it?
Another mum at playgroup today was telling me what kind of personality my 9 month old will have based solely on her star sign.
All pleasant enough stuff but she actually believed it.
What's wrong with people?

"You argued your case but you just can't convince the unconvincable "

Excuse me, but that is not true.

(1) "Unconvincable" means dogmatic, and I for one would believe in astrology in a heartbeat if there were any evidence whatsoever that it works.
(2) She didn't "argue her case" at all, except for some mumblings about how it works for her or some such. Was she able to say how it is supposed to work? No. Was she able to point to any proof that astrology works? No. Was she able to answer my post on errors / shortcomings of astrology (see below) which means it cannot work as advertised? No.

So how can you possibly say that she "argued her case"? From where I sit, it looks very much like she doesn't even have a case

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CoteDAzur Wed 02-Feb-11 10:36:19
Carl Sagan's "The Demon-Haunted World" debunks astrology in a pretty irretrievable manner. From memory:

Astrology only looks at celestial bodies known to Ptolemy, and completely disregards those discovered through modern astronomy in the last 1800 years or so.

It ignores the asteroid belt and satellites within our solar system, not to mention myriad others outside it.

It disregards atmospheric refraction, which means objects are not where you think they are, with the distortion increasing closer to the horizon. Even Ptolemy knew about this so really, there is no excuse.

Astrology also ignores precession of the equinoxes, which Ptolemy also wrote about.

So even if celestial bodies affect our character and future events (and there is no evidence that they do), astrology goes about charting these so-called influences in a completely wrong way.

If there was any empirical evidence that astrology has a basis in science, I am sure we would have heard of it by now. Therefore, none exists. Therefore, any evidence presented will be anecdotal. Lamorna presented anecdotal evidence. Several people on the thread have stated that only hard facts will convince them, therefore those people were never going to be convinced, unless they suddenly decided that anecdotal evidence was acceptable, which, going by the strength of feeling in many posts, was not going to happen.

With this in mind, I don't see that my statement that she can't convince the inconvincable is inaccurate, except grammatically. And as anecdotal evidence was provided, there was an obvious effort on her part to present a case.

I hope Lamorna does post back on these boards again, although if she doesn't I would not really be surprised. I am sure it will delight a few people to know that this experience has certainly made me decide to to turn "more lurker, less poster", I suppose it is the nature of the beast when dealing with an AIBU forum :).

However, moving on....have fun boys and girls will maybe see you around while lurking in the background

Inquiry dad, Brian cox is a disgrace for the simple fact that he has failed to marry me despite it being written in his stars.

Guffaw.

This thread has been a delightful triumph of reason over woo. Superb.

Darn you autocorrect... Of course I meant 'unquiet dad'

We are not "unconvincable", it is just that her words of "oh it works for me" are not convincing. To anyone and about *anything".

Try:
Q: How can you say 2+3 = 7?
A: Oh, it works for me

Tbh, I think this thread could have been a good debate between people who need facts and people who have faith, with about 80% less of the insults.

Witch Lamorna et al., I hope you know mumsnet well enough to realise that AIBU gets hairy quite often, but the rest of the boards are generally very nice. I feel like you took an unecessary pasting.

Cote actually, having faith in something is enough for a lot of people for a lot of things. Not for me, but for a lot of people. not everyone thinks and feels the same way about everything.

Enough for what, other than comfort?

Ask them. I suspect it's different for different people.

Thank you for kind words I don't mind people being nasty, there is just no point in posting as I have lost all credibility now. It is my own fault, I am aries, and it is fairly typical to barge headlong in to prove I am right without reflection or employing my brain! I read the dates before I was dressed or had breakfast, looked them up and thought 'that's it-sun and moon-dried and dusted'! I was so sure that I was right that I didn't even read seeker's reply properly!! I should have asked for time of birth, but too late now.
That is my reason for not posting, there are no hard feeling (despite being called a moron)but you can't retrieve a position from being spectacularly wrong!
(I do think that there is more to the niece than meets the eye and she will come into her own one day!)

Psammead, I'll have to dig it out and have a look again now! From what you've said above, that could be me, I certainly see myself as artistic, but what about people who freely admit to not having a creative bone in their body?

And yes, I agree about the twins thing - so much of the way you are is determined by your birth order, upbringing, so it's impossible to ever really know the answer to this. I certainly don't swear by it, but it did find it rather fascinating.

Incidentally, I did put my DH and DCs throught the system as well, but didn't pay for the full report on them, and their's were all very different, and loosely relevant as I remember, but not mind-blowingly so. But maybe that's because I was reading them, and you tend to pay slightly less attention to other people's readings than to your own!

Hi yes i do think the time and month we atre born as a significance on our personality trates. Linda Goodman was an amazing astrologer try looking at some of her worls famous books. We all come evolve, there is no adam and eve , we come from the earth, the planets the stars, it is uncannily true if you have a proper astrologer do you a reading based on the day and time you were born.
Now the starsigns you read in the paper that is not to be followed, how can anyone know the day you are going to have every day !
I believe like with the oceans and the moon it is all connected,,,,
ONE lOVE

Lamorna, I too hope to see you around the boards. I mightn't agree with you but I've enjoyed the debate.

Oh FFS get over yourself. I won't be uncharitable enough to suggest that the hissy fit/flounce is yet another tactic used by many a woo-peddling charlatan ("Bwaaah! No one's taking me seriously so my psychic powers have, like, dissolved and it's all your fault! But I'll be back and next time I'll only talke to the Twoo Believers.") But the kicking you got, you brought on yourself by insisting that your woo DOES work WAAAAAAH! Of course everyone with a functioning cognitive system is going to laugh at you and deconstruct your woo in about two and a half sentences.

I started a new job once working for a director. She didn't interview me, her PA and another manager did. When I started she was horrified at my starsign and 'would never have offered you the job if I'd known' - apparently 3 leos in an office isn't right. We never really bonded.....

Not the nicest job I ever had!

Lamorna- just to add my bit- I worked for an astrologer for many years and yes, have 'degree' (!) in astrology to prove it!

He was Lib with Cap moon, I am Cap with lib moon- baffled as to where the Capricorns not liking astrology comes from..!

Just every capricorn I know glitterkitty, I seem to know a lot and they are not interested full stop, so that is nothing from a book, my personal observation.I am quite prepared that mine are a only a small cross section.

I haven't had a hissyfit. I was silly enough to get over confident in a challenge and it is my own fault-I decided in less than 5 minutes. Sheer stupidity in retrospect.
I haven't changed my mind at all, but obviously I have no credibility left so there is no point in continuing.
I don't talk just to 'true believers', I don't mention it at all. Less than 10 people know that I have any interest in RL and since it was 15 yrs ago I expect half those have forgotten!

You sound lovely, you do Lamorna. How nice and refreshing for someone to sound do honest and unprecious.

I'm not sure why I started on it, I should left well alone, the way I do in RL!
It isn't even as if I ever do any now. It still think it works to my satisfaction, but I'm obviously not too good at it and got over enthusiastic, a challenge always spurs me on and has got me into trouble before now -in ways not connected with astrology!

I second Fellatio. Off now, bye!

As I said - I felt very uncomfortable proving Lamorna wrong. Like taking candy from a baby - a bit of me wishes I hadn't done it. But most of me thinks - well, this stuff is crap and rational people should do everything they casn to make sure no more innocent people are taken in. Nice people like Lamorna are collateral damage, I suppose.

And, for the record, dn is a wonderful girl - she is her own person in a way I admire very much. She isn't a Bunty Head Girl type - that doesn't make her any way "inferior" to dd - just so different they are like chalk and cheese.

Reason wins over woo. WOO HOO! (sorry Lamorna)

I have no doubt that she will come into her own in time,I expect she will surprise you one day, seeker. It would have been nice to have known the time of birth but all water under the bridge now and too late. Really will stop posting. It hasn't changed my mind that it works, I was just far too hasty and didn't get the full picture.

It all pales into insignificance with the physical challenge I have backed myself into next month from being over hasty!