to think that anynoe who believes in star signs is a complete numpty?

[bettybosseye]

I mean it's so clearly such a great stinking heap of horse shit, how can anyone actually believe it?
Another mum at playgroup today was telling me what kind of personality my 9 month old will have based solely on her star sign.
All pleasant enough stuff but she actually believed it.
What's wrong with people?

lenak - re your revisionist long post below:

Yesterday, you clearly said that you believe astrology gives a predictive «indication» (but «free will over rides» this impact on our day to day lives). So you believe astrology works.

You play down your astrology book for children's characters & career options but the fact that you mention it here and go on to say how everyone felt it was oh so accurate shows that it wasn?t just «a bit of fun».

I have not called you «an idiot». Let me get to know you a bit better first

My personal favorite among all your «Oh actually, I said that but meant this» revisionism was your attempts at redefining your use of «metaphysical world» - Do you seriouslyexpect people to believe you were talking about «metaphysics, a legitimate branch of philosophy» when you said «I don't think we can fully understand what, if any, influence the universe has on our world (physical as well as metaphysical).»? As in, we can?t fully understand the universe has on philosophy? Sorry but that is one of the more pathetic backpaddling I have ever seen around here. Talking about Kant etc made it even funnier. Thanks for the laughs, though.

Re Einstein, I am quite familiar with his works and regardless of his musings on God, fate, etc at some points in his life, his theories do not take into account any «metaphysical world». Einstein?s theories of Relativity do not provide a «huge crossover between physics and metaphysics», however you choose to interpret the word «metaphysics».

As for the rest of your post, your DH?s anecdote is not proof, nope, knowledge is still not «cyclical» and that you Europeans forgot about science and got lost in religion during Dark Ages doesn?t mean the whole world did, if Newton dabbled in «occult» as was the thing in his times, it doesn?t mean «occult» is science.

I do realize that there will be no changing your mind, but it seems that this exchange is encouraging you to Google and learn a bit (if only to support your own views but at least that) and that can only be a good thing.

I don't understand what you mean, why should it be exclusive? Why can you not be trained on two different methods (albeit poles apart ) and utilise both?

It's not something he does in a normal surgery, if I went to him with depression for example he would not diagnose then give me two different options of treatment, but if I asked to be treated homoeopathically then he would ( I must stress before I get flamed that if it were life threatening he would by default revert to conventional medicine).

As a side issue, not taking into account the whole water and sugar pills scenario/debate, is homeopathic treatment not based on treating the whole person as opposed to only greeting the symptoms? As I understand it, it's not just about water and sugar pills.....

I would stress however, I have never been treated with homeopathic medicine and do not assume to be an expert, these are only my thoughts ( witches disclaimer :) )

Because nobody with the remotest idea of scientific method could possibly with a straight face be a homeopathic practitioner.

Do you have to pay for the homeopathic consultation?

Hahahahaha that was meant to be treating and quite obviously not greeting

Well, no. Because one is scientific, logical, evidence based, replicable and valid. And the other is just woo and water. You can't treat depression with homeopathy, you can't treat anything with homeopathy.

Perhaps you are thinking of herbalism or holistic instead of homeopathy. Homeopathy involves taking a molecule of something that you have decided will work on a condition, without any proof, and diluting it over and over again until you have water with a "memory" of the substance. Its illogical and anti-scientific. Its woo. Its botty water.

I would never go to a GP who dispensed such bunkum.

"Why educate people if makes them unhappy?"

Interesting question.

The answer is that only a minority of people is happier & fulfilled with nonsense. The rest of us need to understand.

This reminds me of "Brave New World", btw, where people were bred for degrees of intelligence/stupidity, kept ignorant of literature & philosophy, left to free drugs & free sex, and all were happy.

Nobody was happy because they didn't have any freedom to understand what that meant. They were told they were happy and they believed it. Not the same thing as being happy.

Witch - Homeopathy is "just about water and sugar pills". Read about it. Very probably, there is not a single molecule of active ingredient in a bottle of arnica pills or whatever. They are sugar pills.

Of course they were happy. You can't be happy because someone tells you that you are

They all had a function in society that was perfect for their capabilities. They had no jealousy, family dynamics, or love to complicate things. They had loads of fun in their spare time in free sex and ample drugs.

They are happy but would you like to be in their place? No. Similar to how followers of numty-psedosciences might be the happiest bunnies on earth but I would still pity them and would not want to be in their place.

What, the Mitchell& Webb one - I loved it, hadn't seen it before.

sorry seeker, it is funny, but I imagine a lot of people have seen it. Good sketch though

I hadn't seen it before, seeker, thanks.

I used depression as merely an illustration, i am certainly not saying that it can be treated by homeopathy, in fact I am not saying that anything CAN be treated by homeopathy at all, I have never tried homeopathy so couldn't possibly comment on how valid it would be.

However, the point I have been trying to make through the posts, and it has obviously been missed and/or ignored is that just because conventional medicine has been scientifically proven then that is the only way to treat illness.

Just because astrology ( notice i did not say star signs) has no scientific basis then it is absolute codswallop.

Just because tarot cards and other divination tools have no scientific proof that they work then they are shite

Just because acupuncture or whatever other alternative medicine we want to pull into this has not been scientifically proven then they are also fraudulent...

I am all for proving a theory and I am also behind the idea that " well I haven't seen any proof so I don't believe"

What I cannot buy into though, is the view that seems to be recurring throughout this thread, and that is if you believe in all these things that have no scientific basis then you must have half a brain cell (and that is if you are lucky) . You wouldn't possibly trust in any of those things if you had some intelligence, would you?

Whatever happened to each to their own?

BUZZ that particular dr has been our family doctor for the best part of 10 years, has been there through all of my pregnancys and has taken great care of my kid when sick, just because he has been trained in something extra that does not conform to the norm does not make him a bad doctor.

God I sound so bloody high and mighty, shoot me now......( backing slowly out of the roomemoticon)

I suppose it depends on your definition of happy. But isn't that the entire point of the story? That the kind of "happiness" that is supposedly felt by those who have had it designed for them is worthless. Pavlovian conditioning of what makes you happy isn't happiness. The freedom of the Outside and the real lives that go with that are where happiness is found.

But I think we are agreeing on the overall point anyway.

ROFL just watched Mitchell and Webb sketch very funny :o

I'm sure hes a great doctor. But its not something extra that doesn't conform to the norm, its a load of rubbish that doesn't conform to the laws of physics.
I prefer doctors that do conform to the laws of physics, which doesn't sound an unreasonable expectation.

'Lamorna - you may not be talking about star signs, but the thread title is 'AIBU to think that anyone who believes in star signs is a complete numpty'...'

OP is completely right! If you are reading the newspaper and taking your sun sign of course you are a numpty if you think that 12th of the population of the world is experiencing the same thing in a given day!

Of course Jonathan Cainer thinks it is just a bit of fun, he is very successful in his sun signs columns.Apparently he has the 5th most popular website in UK (I don't know who works it out but it must at least be very popular). He was said to be the highest paid journalist when he worked for the Daily Express.He is a serious Astrologer, but he decided to make money by being a high profile sun sign column writer and so good luck to him if people pay him for it!

I never read them, I don't see the point. If you want something relevant you need the birth date and if you want it to be very relevant you need the time and place.

I honestly thought mumsnetters were more diverse in their opinions.....
as a homeopath, psychic and keen astrologer I will endeavour to put my point across to a large proportion of people whose tone of language leaves much to be desired and identifies some (no names mentioned) as rather lacking in any balanced argument.

1. Homeopathy does work. The dilution of remedies is merely one aspect. A Hpath will treat the person as a whole, consider their constitition, medical history and begin treating them in layers. Eg, if you have shingles just as an example, well, treat the symptoms of that first, then onto the factors as to why you got shingles, eg, grief, low immune system, and then begin to strengthen your immune system. We do this by diluting remedies made froma whole range of substances, but taken from those which allow the body to create a similar reaction. The best example I could give would be - if you have a fever, then a doctor would give you a paracetemol, which will bring the fever down, but not deal with the cause of the problem. A homeopath would prob give you belladonna which would allow your body to respond by taking a subsatnce that causes a fever in its natural form. Your body will naturally emit the fever and the causes of that fever. No drugs involved, just a sugary pill with no drugs that have a long-term effect.
   As for the dilution, yes, it has been proven that the more you water down a remedy, taking belladonna as an example again, if you give someone a 200c, highly diluted their body will get rid of the fever quicker than one who is given a 6c, which has more of the mother tincture on it. This is because water has a memory, again proven and a lot written about it.

As far as astrology goes, who are we, mere mortal souls to questions a system larger than us..... the ancient egyptians knew of the moon, sun, planets great powers, built an empire based on star constellations. Don't knock what you cannot disprove. Those of us who can feel the energy and magic of our divine system are blessed. Those who can't, try and open up to it I DARE YOU............

homeopathy doesnt work it is qauckery and placebo.

I hardly think training as a homeopath constitutes denying the laws of physics buzz, that is a tad extreme.

homeopathy does indeed lack any scientific basis.florid language and qausi-scientific explanation to add the veneer of legitimacy

also why does homoeopathy emulate medicine and use medical terms eg consultation, treatment, interventions and attempt diagnosis?

Hahahah, what a crock from Eyeofhorus. Here's a quick translation. 'Open your mind. WIder. Wiiiiiiiiider - all the way until your brain falls out. Now give me all your money and fuck off.'

What bemuses me, though, is not why it's OK to laugh at woo-believers (which it is, of course) but why it's perceived by believers in mainstream religion as less ok to laugh at their beliefs. WHich are equally bollocks. I have never heard anyone come up with a reason why believing in Jesus is in any way less dimwitted than believing in pixies or horoscopes or crystal healing.

"because water has a memory, again proven and a lot written about it"

The above has not been proven as if it were true the stuff coming out the tap would have the memory of all 'remedies' in it at 'super strength' in homeopathic terms.

I'm a fan of homeopathy as being listened to and treated holistically works as it taps into our own healing system.

The placebo effect may be in evidence too but the very fact of being REALLY heard and validated by someone in a 90 minute consultation slows down your heart rate, makes you believe you can get better etc.

I treat people who have a whole range of mental health issues (Not as a homeopath but as a counsellor/psychotherapist) and they get better because of the talking therapy.

Many of the homeopathic practioners I know are very nice, empathetic people and I have no doubt that they are also providing a limited 'talking' cure.