To be proud of being and wife and to want to be acknowledged as such?

[WriterofDreams]

I've read quite a few posts on MN from people who are annoyed, and quite rightly so, at being called "Mrs" when they're actually a Ms or Dr or some other title. I've actually found I have the opposite problem, where companies send me correspondence with the title "Ms" even though I put Mrs on any forms or letters I send. It also quite annoys me when I introduce my DH as my husband and people persist in calling him my partner. I chose to get married and being a wife is an important part of my identity that I would like to have acknowledged. I like being "Mrs DH's name" although I do draw the line at being called "Mrs Dh's first name Dh's second name," as I haven't actually changed my first name at all.

AIBU to expect companies and professionals to use the title I've actually selected rather than the PC catch-all one?

A very elderly gentleman stopped me this week and said 'So you are the lovely Mrs [husbands surname]? We've never met before' and introduced himself. Neither the title nor surname was correct, but I could never feel offended about being linked to my husband (as I hope he is not offended on the times he is addressed as Mr Onetoomanycornettos). I just don't get the big deal this is for people, really I don't.

Onetoomanycornettos-completely agree!
Also think people can't win when it comes to addressing certain people..
Damned if you do and damned if you don't call x ms/mrs etc..

AnnieL I understand exactly what you are saying but wish that maybe you can understand that others feel differently. If a woman told me that she preferred being 'Ms' I would always use 'Ms' when referring to her. It is just good manners.

You are happy to ignore what another woman chooses to be known as if you don't like it. That is bad manners.

I don't go around defining myself as a 'wife'. I don't shout it from the rooftops, I don't have a flashing badge on my chest that says 'wife'. But given the freedom that every woman should feel she has, I choose 'Mrs', who are you to take that choice away from me?

I don't expect you to agree with me, just as I feel no need to agree with you. The difference is that if we met I would afford you with enough respect to address you as you wish to be addressed, but you would not extend the same courtesy to me.

WOD you've certainly taken all the sneers directed at you with good grace.
YANBU it's rude to ask what you want to be called and then ignore it. Rude, as you said, not life threatening as some are implying you mean.

I'm a feminist, newly married and go by a range of names. I am 'proud to be a wife' ie not ashamed of it. In certain contexts it's totally reasonable to be defined by your relationship to another person. Which the word 'partner' does too, btw. My mother, for example never refers to me as Dublin born legal secretary Wukter. Which equally define me, but not in that context.

People who are married obviously think it's worth it for whatever sensible/frivolous reason. So those who are unmarried are banging their heads off brick walls by telling them it's pointless, or they are somehow sneering at others for not having the same perspective on different circumstances.

So be called what you like.

Quite often when I'm at book parties etc people address my husband as Mr Litchick.

Which makes us laugh, cos I'm not Miss Ms or Mrs Litchick. Made it up ya see.

Gawd, I bet all the midwives inwardly roll their eyes to high heaven at you lot, insisting your DHs be referred to as husbands and not partners... Flipping heck!

And I say this as a married woman who did actually want to be (and was/am) married before I had children.

Proud to be a wife? No-one but the two of us gives two hoots, so, yanno, meh...

AnnieL - so you find miss/mrs offensive and don't want to use it for yourself, fair enough. But to deliberately call other people by the wrong name is just rude, and in fact it's weird. The majority of married women are 'Mrs' so you'd offend less people by calling them that.

seeker - why is it F*ing stupid to say I don't know anyone who needs to make a political point by calling themself 'Ms'? I don't! It's a fact! I once worked with a 'Ms', she's now in a civil partnership and calls herself Mrs. That's my whole RL experience of the whole Ms/Mrs issue, apart from when people wrongly apply it to me.

Nikon - if I went to someone's house for dinner, it would be good manners to eat whatever is put in front of me. However, as a vegetarian, I would rather be bad mannered and refuse the food.

Same thing here for me.

Only difference is that as a vegetarian I can usually warn my host in advance.

To be truthful, 'partner' means whatever the person using it wishes it to mean.
If a woman said 'so and so is my partner', I would conclude that I could not draw any conclusions from it. Maybe she thinks herself as being a 'partner' while he thinks, 'temporary girlfriend', maybe it's for life. Who knows?
While, 'wife' does have definite meaning: she is a part of a couple who pledged allegiance to each other explicitly.

Agree marantha.
I always think the term 'partner' covers husband/wife/girlfriend/boyfriend etc etc..
Like I said people can't win..you'll always find someone who's offended.

Of course if they ask you what you're called and address you in a different way then that's rude but how often does that actually happen?I know it's never happened to me and if it did I personally wouldn't get offended.

"Or are women only allowed to make the choices and the decisions which certain feminists deem acceptable?"

LOL LeQueen. Reading the feminism topic on MN, you quickly realise that if you don't feel a victim of the patriarchy and are not actively participating in a never-ending quest to do men down and dispense with any female role not actively associated with doing men down, you are not entitled to call yourself a man-hater feminist

Not quite Bonsoir.

I agree, JimmyChooChoo, people should call other people what other people wish to be called.
The only bugbear I have is when people do not appreciate that there is a difference between the words, 'wife' and 'partner' because there are clear differences and the two are NOT interchangeable.

LeQueen - you said earlier in the thread that midwives are careful not to offend non-marrieds (and so use the word 'partner'), but don't seem to care about offending the marrieds.

You're offended by the use of the word 'partner'? Really...?

Personally, I had bigger fish to fry whilst in the delivery suite.

What irks me about this thread is that I see many women's insistence on being called 'Mrs' and not referring to their husbands as 'partners' as a proof that they believe in superiority of being married.

In other words some women seem to be afraid to be seen/judged as single/unmarried.

And this really depresses me at our point in history.

I feel quite pleased that people seem to think I've taken snidey comments with good grace :) (Is that a bit sad lol). I don't take any of the comments personally so no need to get angry about it. Plus I don't have the energy what with a four week old DS sucking me dry at every opportunity

Annie I find your attitude a bit odd to be honest. I don't think your vegetarianism analogy really works as that is a choice you make about what goes into your body. Choosing what to call other people in spite of what they want is making a choice on behalf of another person. So it would be more like insisting a vegetarian eat your meat pie because you are morally opposed to vegetarianism. You are making someone else accept your views by changing something important to them (IME names are very important to people - you learn this very quickly as a teacher and you mispronounce a name) without their wish or permission. It strikes me as a bit rude really.

I honestly don't think that's the case farmazon. I was with DH for six years before we got married and I used to call him my boyfriend then. I had no shame around the fact that we were living together unwed, and I would imagine very few people do have that shame nowadays. Bear in mind too that I was living in Catholic Ireland when I was shacked up with DH and no one judged me in the slightest. I don't feel superior to people who are unmarried, in fact my issue isn't in reference to other couples at all. My issue is that I am married and so want to be recognised as such because it is important to me.

Not in my case farmazon.
Then again, i don't insist on it. But one word 'partner' is accurate while another 'husband' is specific. Leaving value judgements out of it.

YANBU I think because you and DH took the trouble, time and expense of getting married, you should addressed properly. We are a rare breed these days, instead of living over the brush.

I agree that if a company/organization/individual directly asks you what your title and surname is and then proceeds to use a different name when they have written it down, that is irritating.

But when you meet someone for the first time, or start chatting to them and later on make reference to partners/husbands in the conversation or forgot to ask, you can't just ask upfront what someone's name is and what the exact relationship is with their loved one (if indeed they have one). I think using euphemisms like 'partner' or taking a stab in the dark with Mrs X is quite reasonable.

And of course, there are those who are offended if they are asked for a title anyway as it denotes their marital status, the very thing that the marrieds want to be asked about and advertise (not me personally). So, you absolutely couldn't win in this situation ever!

Time for another airing:

Feminism is about Equal Rights for Women. For women to be treated and regarded on equal terms as men.

The term "Mrs" denotes possession. You may wish to deny this, but it is the fact and the truth and the historical derivation and provenance.

Ergo "Mrs" or "Miss" are not terms compatible with equality.

Ergo those of us who do not wish to subscribe to the practice associated with being a second class citizen, use "Ms."