To be proud of being and wife and to want to be acknowledged as such?

[WriterofDreams]

I've read quite a few posts on MN from people who are annoyed, and quite rightly so, at being called "Mrs" when they're actually a Ms or Dr or some other title. I've actually found I have the opposite problem, where companies send me correspondence with the title "Ms" even though I put Mrs on any forms or letters I send. It also quite annoys me when I introduce my DH as my husband and people persist in calling him my partner. I chose to get married and being a wife is an important part of my identity that I would like to have acknowledged. I like being "Mrs DH's name" although I do draw the line at being called "Mrs Dh's first name Dh's second name," as I haven't actually changed my first name at all.

AIBU to expect companies and professionals to use the title I've actually selected rather than the PC catch-all one?

Have pride in whatever you like, but don't you see it's anti-feminist to support the use of a title that asks women to reveal their marital status when men don't have to?

No, I don't fortheringhay because I don't believe everything has to be tit for tat. Ok so men don't have to reveal their marital status, bully for them, I don't care. I like revealing my marital status and I don't need men to follow suit in order to justify it. Surely that's true feminism?

I do feel different being married. And like it. Security and freedom about sums it up.

As for the words. I like the words wife and husband. But the actual titles Ms, Miss, Mrs are all unappealing to me for one reason or other.

" Part of the scariness and joy of a truly strong marriage is really opening yourself up to another person and allowing them to become part of you. The potential to get hurt is huge, but the rewards are worth it. "

It's great that you have such a strong relationship but surely you understand that it is not the ring, title or piece of paper which governs these feelings - they exist between non-married couples in just the same way.

I think the reason a lot of people are irritated with your post is the sub-text that implies that marriage is better than a partnership. It might have been important for you but that doesn't make it universally superior.

Yes I love being married too, but why the need for titles advertising the fact to the world?

I'd like to move to a system without titles at all.

yabu but yanbu. I think it's perfectly acceptable to enjoy being called a wife and I too have a pet hate of 'partner'.
I think it's because of the way people use it: it sounds so smug somehow- 'look at me. I don't need bourgeois institution of marriage'.
It also bemuses me when people use it here when their 'dp's' are obvious bs, as the word 'partner' conveys hippy-dippy harmony which is obviously NOT present in their relationships (!). 'Boyfriend' seems more apt.

I suppose yabu, though, as I can see that it people use it as a catch-all.
It's perhaps easier for them.
It is daft to do this, though, as from a legal perspective 'wife' does have a definite meaning. 'Partner' is wholly subjective and I think those involved in money matters when it comes to dishing out loans etc should bear that in mind.
For example, a woman could regard a man as her 'partner' while the guy just thinks she's a temporary girlfriend.
I don't think anyone married could hold view that being a 'husband' or 'wife' is meant to be temporary. When people marry, they at least realise that it is meant to be for life- even though they know deep down that it will not last.

"Does this mean we can be equally as snide about women who prefer to be called Ms hmm"

People are. if I could be bothered to search back through this thread i would find loads of examples.

But it's not about which is better. It's about people being called what they want to be called.

And it's about what the default position is.

And the default position should obviously, logicsally, be "Ms' and "partner". Because this covers everyone. I will defend to the death (well, up to a point) people's right to be called Mrs and Wife, from the moment they express a preference. But until they ahev expressed that preference, Ms and partner covers all possible variations.

Also, the reason why it is still important to be married has naff all to do with commitment or love- it's an insurance policy for if/when things go wrong. For example, death or separation. Cohabitees are just treated as legal strangers.
So, to my mind, it being UNmarried that is more smug than being married because the unmarried can think that they are invincible to realities of life like death or separation.

'Mrs' as a term/concept may be anti feminist, but until there is one uniform term for women I'm not sure how it can be avoided as every term seems to carry a particular stance....'Ms' is usually used by the unmarried that don't want to reveal, Miss, definitely unmarried.

But there is always a sub text whatever you write....I am pleased we don't need a piece of paper... I am delighted we declared our love.....I delighted I only have girls.....So proud that I bf my baby for a year....Brilliant that my DH can get up to do night feeds because we bottle feed...

"Ms' is usually used by the unmarried that don't want to reveal"

No it isn't!

"But there is always a sub text whatever you write....I am pleased we don't need a piece of paper... I am delighted we declared our love.....I delighted I only have girls.....So proud that I bf my baby for a year....Brilliant that my DH can get up to do night feeds because we bottle feed..."

Yes, of course there is always a sub-text to comments like this, which is why people react strongly to them when they are posted on a discussion forum rather than being passing comments in conversation. When you talk to someone the conversation has a natural pace and you don't necessarily give a huge amount of thought to the politics of what you say. When you take the time to sit down and type it out and post it on MN, then you have an agenda. Sometimes that agenda might just be to have a bit of a rant about something that is driving you mad, but often, particularly with divisive subjects, the agenda is to seek agreement that your choices or opinions are superior, or even to have a little dig at those with alternative opinions or choices.

People on MN are not generally stupid and are more than capable of picking up on the sub-texts and agendas and challenging them. That is what is happening here.

I don't actually know anyone who insists on being known as "Ms". Everyone I know through work uses "Miss" as the default position and I have never heard any of my unmarried friends take issue with how they are addressed. You quite often get companies asking you "Is it Miss or Ms?" and my usual response is "I don't mind".

There is also a big difference between hiding your marital status for personal reasons and not wanting it to be attached to your name when it is not relevant. I suspect the latter is behind the use of Ms for most people who do choose to use it.

There's nothing wrong with being happy with your life and the choices you've made, whether that's to marry, have kids, remain childfree, travel the world or make porn films.
There is something a bit unsettling when women start making a big song and dance about 'reclaiming' the identity of being a man's property and that it's something to be proud of in a way that suggests they think all women would be happier and better off if they'd only admit they can't be autonymous human beings and if they can't find a man to take ownership of them they have failed.

I am extremely proud of the fact that I have resisted the social pressure to be heteromonogamous. My life is much better and happier for never having lived with a partner or been married.

[sits SGB down and strokes hand soothingly while trying to get her to admit that she really wants the big white dress and the wedding cake]

And are you Miss or Ms?

You need the Japanese system, fotheringhay: everyone's Name-san, male and female.

My Japanese colleagues used to find the Mrs/Miss thing deeply frustrating: they put a high value on courtesy and hated to address people wrongly, but didn't like to start every phonecall enquiring about a stranger's personal life. So in English they used Ms because it's noncomittal.

Of course, the Japanese system wouldn't suit WriterofDreams, because she likes informing people she's married, and I'm-WriterofDreams-san-I'm-married-you-know is a bit cumbersome.

But by definition. Miss cannot be a default position!

I like the sound of the Japanese system - except my first name rhymes with -san.
Anne-san probably not going to work out so well.

Wasn't Star Trek very forward-thinking and everyone was "Mr", male or female? Or am I imagining that?

Seeker.....perhaps I should have put in my experience.

In the court system, everyone is Miss. It is the default position in that everyone uses it. As I mentioned earlier, I only know one person who insisted on being "mrs" in court and people thought she was weird.