in thinking kind, polite children are a rarity in the middle classes

[ThePosieParker]

Obviously a flaming type of title, but:

I bring up my dcs to be kind, share, be great hosts, polite, etc.... However whenever they go elsewhere (and I've seen it in my own home) the other children do not have to share and as long as they're out of the way noone bothers to check that they're sharing, not playing on inappropriate games on the internet etc.

I am torn between making them as egocentric as the other children or keeping them kind and therefore walked over. I have said to DH that I'm not going to force them to play whatever their friends want when they come here anymore.

This egocentric precious Johnnie syndrome even stretches to parties where children have some to a party and then 'chosen' children for something extra like a sleepover....

Seeing as you ask, Yes, I do think you're be ing unreasonable. In fact you seem to have a very low tolerance of other people and their DC.

This is your second AIBU in a week in which you are moaning about other peoples' parenting.

I'm guessing that you're not a very confident person, because you seem to need reassurance/attention from MN quite a lot. You should go by your gut instincts and parent your DC the way you feel is best, and leave others to do the same.

If you have such a poor opinion of the middle classes, why do you mix with them?

I dont think its a class thing either you get parents and kids like this in all classes. Its a case of some parents dont bring their children up with good values, morals and beliefs. Thats their downfall and it can be like this in any walks of life.. Hoepfully if you bring your children up properly then your children will gravitate towards kids more like themselves.

YABU I bet your friends dislike things about your children :)

This is nothing to do with class, but I understand where you're coming from, I think. As I type I've got six "nice" children for tea who have gone stark raving bonkers and rampaging around the house. They are otherwise lovely children, but the combination of each other in an enclosed space seems to set off a certain sort of behaviour. They probably behave in this way all the time out of doors but no-one notices or cares. Roll on summer!!

How amazing! It seems that everyone on this thread has wonderfully polite and well behaved children! Are you all working class, or maybe you just think you have well behaved and polite children, because you are a teeny tiny bit biased .

Where are all the bad parents - netmums?!

I am definitely middle class - and IMHO, "speak for yourself" OP .

In my expereince, all of my (mostly middle class) friends are bringing up their kids to be polite and kind - remembering to say "please" and "thank you" and to give guests the choice about what to do when they visit. That is what ds has to do all the time - and as far as I am aware, that is what happens when he visits other people. I also expect any child who comes to the house to say please and thank you to me - and if they don't, they don't get what they asked for.

There are of course one or two expections - not every child is an angel - but class does not come into it.

Perhaps the thread was supposed to spark a debate, I wanted to hear from parents who don't 'entitle' their dcs.....just like me!!

twattish post

I heard a mother on the way over from school telling her child off for having pushed another child at school. As humiliating as it can be when the child misbehaves, I agree with OP that no body seems to be taking actions on disciplining their kids now days.

My DS got pushed and shoved to the ground by the so called "best friends" and their mothers would look and say "Shame he is not as sporty as our kids!!!" Since I would come down like a ton of bricks on my kids when they misbehave, why not others....

stressedok love your post, you have hit the nail on the head!!

Class comes into it because the popular stereotype is that bad behaviour is more likely amongst working class or poor children. Which is not true. There are plenty of ill mannered brats amongst the middle classes and the rich, too. And of course well behaved children from all kinds of different backgrounds.

It seems to me that a lot of parents want to build 'confidence' into their children. I can really understand why they do this. Confidence is essential to a successful life. You have only to look around you and see that many successful people seem indistinguishable from the less successful except for this one characteristic.

HOWEVER, confidence has to be backed up with substance or it seems to turn to insecurity and disappointment. You have to have real achievement, real social skills and a real work ethic to be successful (particularly the latter, or so it seems to me from observing the parents and children I have come across in school). No amount of 'confidence' will do you any good if you can't back it up with skills.

OP continue with your children as you have been, and add praise for a work ethic. Life is a long game - you are developing real skills, my experience is that that in the end this will lead to real confidence. If other children are lacking in social skills, use it as a learning experience for your children and maybe learn to avoid them. Trust me, very soon everyone else will be too (I've seen it so often). Sometimes it is really sad because the 'little emperor' child has clearly only developed these self-destructive behaviours to please their parents - it is horrible to watch them getting lonelier and lonelier as they enter their teens, but that is what seems to happen.

Oh and I am not sure that this is a class thing either.

PosieParker I get the impression that you're actually aspiring to be middle class yourself and maybe that's where your real beef lies.

You say that you're middle class, but you don't sound very middle class to me. That's probably why you need so much reassurance, because you feel inadequate in some way.

You seem to be very bothered by trivial stuff....like my name being all in capital letters. These things don't really matter, to most people; also I don't know any middle class people who use the word 'twat' in the same context as you do.

YABU. Get off your high horse !!

Great post Ali.

What the op is saying is true in respect that I have friends/ know many others whos DC are like this and left to it. Even when they are watching/playing something on computer/tv they are left to it as they ignore parents when asked to switch it off and are left so it doesn't cause a scene. My DS is unable to stand uo for himself to them as they know just what to say at the right volume.

Think its far to general to say its the middle classes although I'm working class and people I know whos dcs are like this are middle class

Think its more that working class/ lower income families don't have the disposible income for expensive trips/ treats so the dcs come to expect less.

.... yet my experience - but far too small to extrapolate from - is that it is the kids from the working class families that are "given everything" for Christmas and the middle class families are the ones that refuse to give thier kids Xboxes, DSis, iPOD Touches, mobile phones....

I think alicatte was the most eloquent: most good parents, no matter what "class" they consider themselves to be, do their best to inculcate their kids with a good set of values and consideration for others. Sometimes takes time for it to get into their thick skulls the little darlings to demonstrate that they have actually taken those values on board

This egocentric precious Johnnie syndrome even stretches to parties where children have some to a party and then 'chosen' children for something extra like a sleepover....

I'd certainly agree with you on this. I've known a few hateful occasions where one or two children have been deliberately excluded from a party or sleepover for no particular reason. One child was a bit loud but not a bully and he was the only child in the class not to get an invite. Could only have been the parents. Unbelievably shitty.

Some of the research into bullying now shows that, far from suffering from 'lack of self-esteem', many bullies 'suffer' from an over-inflated view of themselves.

I had a friend who used to think a little like the OP (minus the class bias). Never had the heart to tell her what her pfb was like when out of her sight. I noticed none of our friends had either.

I don't think that it has anything to do with class. It also makes me smile because I know parents who think that their own DCs are so polite, but they don't see them when they are on their own!

I think that there is an issue with children's behaviour and sense of entitlement these days and I am open to the possibility that there may possibly be a "class" element.

Among the professional, university educated parents I know, there seems to be tremendous feelings of guilt associated with basic disciplining of kids these days. To learn how to interact successfully with others, a toddler will have times when they need to tantrum and cry because they can't get what they want. There are times that their parent will need to be stern and not apologise for it or make excuses e.g. "ah they're only little". It's not possible, IMO, to allow a child to have everything their own way until they are 5 or 6 and expect them, suddenly, to know "the rules". Toddlers won't ever "get" that they need to share or be polite, it's just not part of their makeup, but they need to have social expectations modelled and repeated again and again while they are too immature to be able to navigate the social world independently. It's part of our job as parents to socialise them, they won't just come to this understanding independently..

I always thought everyone knew this but I hear friends talking of their tremendous upset that their child has cried having been told off, or justifying giving them a stern look in an apologetic way, or reacting to their upset about necessary things (e.g. getting into a car seat, having their nose wiped) with signals of their own genuine distress. I know a mum whose little one will have a massive tantrum if she is not allowed to wear her Dora the Explorer underwear, and she has handwashed it and dried it with a hairdryer to prevent a tantrum! .

I haven't got this far with my own kid yet and I wonder how I will be. I think that I was raised to see discipline as highly necessary but I'm never quite sure how you're supposed to do it in public now? I feel that creeping anxiety about being a Good Enough Parent as much as the next person and I know, on some level, it relates as much to fears about how my parenting will be perceived as anything.

I think in my parent's time, it was simple. Kids were expected to be disciplined so even if it made you feel bad to hear them cry (as I'm sure it did just as much then), it was the norm so you could feel reassured you were Doing the Right Thing and if you weren't, it would be unlikely your best attempts would be sneered at or dissected on MN . Now, it's confusing. Should you be all "unconditional" or firm or.. or.. or...?