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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

in thinking kind, polite children are a rarity in the middle classes

140 replies

ThePosieParker · 01/02/2011 11:56

Obviously a flaming type of title, but:

I bring up my dcs to be kind, share, be great hosts, polite, etc.... However whenever they go elsewhere (and I've seen it in my own home) the other children do not have to share and as long as they're out of the way noone bothers to check that they're sharing, not playing on inappropriate games on the internet etc.

I am torn between making them as egocentric as the other children or keeping them kind and therefore walked over. I have said to DH that I'm not going to force them to play whatever their friends want when they come here anymore.

This egocentric precious Johnnie syndrome even stretches to parties where children have some to a party and then 'chosen' children for something extra like a sleepover....

OP posts:

Original poster

ThePosieParker · 01/02/2011 12:48

Grimma....I am scarred....bloody Judy!!

OP posts:

mrsruffallo · 01/02/2011 12:49

Posie, bringing your children up to be nice, considerate people will benefit them in the long run.
I would find nicer friends for them, the bunch you have mentioned will only be a bad influence.

You knew this would kick off though, didn't you?

mrsruffallo · 01/02/2011 12:51

I think the parents of these kids feel proud because they think 'Ah look, Johnny's an alpha, he won't be walked over in life'
It reeks of insecurity

Original poster

ThePosieParker · 01/02/2011 12:54

I thought people would be at the title but read the OP and all would be well!!

OP posts:

GandalfyCarawak · 01/02/2011 12:54

:o This thread is so funny. OP should have been "Why can't other children be as wonderful as mine?"

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, and with children, you do live in a glass house. They may go through difficult stages, they may be nightmarish teens. Then other parents can look at them and say how their children would never do that.

weefriend · 01/02/2011 12:55

I don't think class has anything to do with it. I feel very unfair on my dd though because I tell her she should do what her guest wants to do in our home, but then tell her she can't demand what she wants when she's the guest somewhere else. She quite rightly points out that this is unfair because she never gets to do what she wants and it's true. It only works if the other friend is being considerate too. They often aren't so it makes me wonder if I'm telling her the wrong thing.

Abr1de · 01/02/2011 12:56

Yes, I've seen this type of parent, too. 'You've got to bring kids up to stand up for themselves,' one father told me. That was the father of the boy who was always thumping other boys.

The parents I try and spend time with en famille are the ones who have NO time for bullying-type behaviour and won't tolerate it.

It's not a class thing. I know parents from all classes: from landed, titled, gentry, to builders. Some are great parents; some are useless.

Abr1de · 01/02/2011 12:57

But I agree that there's an entitled, usually left-wing kind of parent, who is too wet to tell her appalling kids to stop thumping other people.

slightlymad72 · 01/02/2011 12:59

Yep when my kids are doing there matcho bit I think well done boys you're alpha males and no one is gonna fuck you over.

I have been complimented many many times on how well behaved my kids are when they go places.

they are normal kids, they are selfish at times, they are argumentative at times, they fall out with their friends, they make up with their freinds, and they act just has OP has described and complained about. So do their friends, its normal behaviours.

Because my kids act like this sometimes does that mean they should not be allowed to socialise, have friendships etc etc.

yes there are consequences for bad behaviour but it doesn't mean they are going to be perfect angels all the time.

Mrswhiskerson · 01/02/2011 12:59

Keep teaching your children to be polite etc they are very good life skills to have , if they are being walked over teach them how to stick up for themselves too they need to learn that not everyone has good manners Regardless of class and they will need to learn to stick up for themselves for when they enter the big wide world. You are not going to get much more than a flaming saying all middleclass children have bad manners and for what it's worth I hate the whole class system, who is anyone to say who is a higher class than who , we are all people regardless of lifestyle money and what kind of house you have . YOur dc would do well to learn that too.

Mrswhiskerson · 01/02/2011 13:01

Sorry double post

mrsruffallo · 01/02/2011 13:06

No one expects their children to be 'perfect angels' all of the time.
That isn't what this is about. It's a general lack of empathy and consideration, which it is the parents' job to teach.
My closest friends pick up on behaviour they need to tackle, some other parents just ignore/pretend not to see and put it down to 'kids being kids'.

MoaningMedalllist · 01/02/2011 13:11

Its not to do with class but the attitude of the parents there are plenty egocentric WC children

PercyPigPie · 01/02/2011 13:14

I don't have a problem with my children's friends, but I do have a problem with some other children at school who have not taught to be kind (in one case the mother seems to think it is cool to call other children nerds etc). I have been really torn whether to encourage my [very kind] DC to continue to be kind or to teach them cutting put downs to they can hold their own better. I have always done the former, but sadly am not leaning towards the latter as I don't want to bring up door mats.

greatauntbetty · 01/02/2011 13:14

I don't think this has anything to do with class or being left/right wing. Its just different 'styles' of parenting. I agree that the amount of sharing/politeness expected does vary between families and that I am a little sometimes at the behaviour considered acceptable. But then, thats why some children have more/less friends than others and some are considered bullies and some aren't.

I certainly encourage my kids to share (and its such a joy with the toddler) and hope they follow through on it when I'm not around. OP are you really concerned that everyone at your DCs school behaves in a way you view as selfish?

neolara · 01/02/2011 13:15

I don't particularly get the "guest gets to choose' thing. When there's conflict with my dcs and their guests, I try to get them to "find a game where everyone is happy". (It doesn't always work though.)

greatauntbetty · 01/02/2011 13:16

Oop, just reread that. Didn't mean to imply that any parenting that I don't agree with results in a bully - so not what I meant. Just that some kids are more proactive, shall we say, in their approach. Sometimes that is a good thing. Guess it depends on the context?

LeQueen · 01/02/2011 13:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

ThePosieParker · 01/02/2011 13:19

LeQ....that's good to know.

OP posts:

Litchick · 01/02/2011 13:19

Robert Crampton wrote an interesting article in the Friday Times about men needing to parent more effectively, particularly in respect of their teenaged boys.

He stated that a certain section of the ultra liberal middle class were as guilty as the underclass for allowing their boys to behave badly.

MrsNonSmoker · 01/02/2011 13:25

PosieParker - I am sure I was on a thread with you last week and you were getting flamed then and I was agreeing with you but saying whatever you do don't post on AIBU again and here you are, up for a burnt bum!!

I agree with the gist of what you are saying - I feel that I have crippled my children with manners which other children don't have - e.g., cakes are put on table my children wait to be offered, everyone else steams in, they end up with nothing. I don't think that's just kids being kids, I think its bad manners, but - big but (tee hee) - its nothing to do with class.

Original poster

ThePosieParker · 01/02/2011 13:27

Ooo thanks Litchick, it is my boys I am thinking of. My dd seems to negotiate everything as do her friends, and she's only four!!

We went to the zoo with a mother of one of ds' friends, I had to repeatedly tell my DS to tell the boy to stop hitting him....it was excruciating. the mother seemed to think it was fun, because her son was enjoying it, and I couldn';t tell him off and so I was angry with DS for not sticking up for himself....to my shame.

OP posts:

Hulababy · 01/02/2011 13:27

Have worked in secondary schools in both middle class and working class (if class is needed re the OP), have worked in a male prison with teens from 17y (plus adults) and worked in primary with a mixed background of children. Live in a fairly middle class area and have lived in more working class areas too.

I can honestly say that I have notied no rea difference between the "classes" regarding children's ability to share, say please and thank you, take it in turns, be polite, etc. All backgrounds seem to have pretty similar numbers of polite and less polite hildren.

FWIW I guess we'd be classed as middle class My DD is an 8y only child. She is polite, caring, kind, well mannered and sociable. Why? Nothing to do with class. Mainly because she has been shown how to behave aprropriately from home and school.

Original poster

ThePosieParker · 01/02/2011 13:27

MNS...I am a secret sado!

OP posts:

mrsruffallo · 01/02/2011 13:27

It's not so much manners is it? I am not overly concerned with table manners, more kindness and sharing, doing nice things to make people happy. Suggesting solutions to problems rather than trying to get your own way etc etc

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