to think that "fat shops" like Evans and Ann Harvey don't do their customers any favours by making their sizes much larger than they usually are?

[MrsSchadenfreude]

Was in London last week, nipped into both. Tried on jeans in Evans, even a size 16 was too big (and I am SO not a 16). Went into Horrible Ann Harvey, Polyester Queen, and overheard the woman saying to a customer, "No, the sizes come up much bigger than in regular shops. If you're a size 16 in M & S, there won't be anything here to fit you."

Is this not going to lull porkers (I am one, I am allowed to say that) into a false sense of their own size, if they think, oh I am "only" a size 16, which is not too bad, when actually they are probably a 22+ in "normal" shops?

Yes but the op is talking about a difference of three sizes not one. And not the difference between now and 30 years ago. I last bought trousers in Evans about a year ago. Things can't have changed that much in a year.

Being overweight yourself does not mean you are allowed to use offensive terminology..

I think you sound rather ignorant

Acanthus, I am a 16 (bottom half,14 top) and bang smack in the middle of the just right bmi so I could put on weight to be a 16 all over and not be overweight iyswim. The sizing on clothes means bugger all as people have said, people assume I'm a 12 and I think it's because I'm not ashamed of the size I am so buyclothes that fit. If clothes having a smaller label than perhaps they really are and it means people aren't squeezing themselves into clothes 2 sizes too small just so they don't have to say they are a 20 then so be it!

It's called having a sense of humour, Penelope.
And I think you sound rather pompous.

Exactly MrsS, have some humour Penelope its a bit of fun not meant to be offensive, if you cant laugh at yourself than what can you do.

Ann Harvey appear to have had a "revamp" - perhaps the sizes changed at about the same time?

I don't know about Evans - I hardly ever go in there. That was my recent experience.

What would you say, out of interest, Penelope? Overweight and possibly obese are probably accurate. Also fat. Wobbly, maybe? I know people who would find any of these terms more upsetting than being called a bit of a porker.

I've lost some weight recently, and have just embarked on phase 2 (hopefully another 3st) I'm 5.10.

All the clothes I'm wearing are size 16, and the size 16 Sainsbury's cheap jeans are way too loose and the H and M hoodie fits fine, but there's no way I'd say I'm a 16. If I am, I want to be a 12.

When I needed to shop in Evans et al I was always disappointed that the curvy bits seemed to be in the right place for someone 5.1, never right for me.

I think you can discuss the sizing in shops aimed at people above a size 16 without having to use any offensive terms acually.

I dislike the way some people will use the word "nigger" followed by "its ok to say that 'cos im black"

no. its not. it's a universally aknowledged term of derision.

Im not pompous at all. I just dont see why it is necessary to make people who are likely to be sensetive about their appearance to feel even worse.

And in answer to your OP, maybe those who shop at these stores know full well how much they weigh and welcome the fact that they can buy clothes that fit them no matter what the number on the label says.

Not been in either shop,but there was an article on Woman's Hour the other week about how the sizes in the same shop can differ considerably,depending on which factory/manufacturer they came from.So you could try on 2 size 10 tops in the same shop and have one much bigger/smaller.Some chap was on there trying to defend the practice and did a very poor job.

Penelope, the same people could well be offended that you think they 'are likely to sensetive about their appearance'.

Some may be sensetive, some may be quite happy and not like the insinuation that they are likely not to be.

It's a minefield really, and I think it's quite obvious from the tone of the OP that no offence was intended.

I am an 18-20, I love going into Evans and buying clothes with a 14 or 16 on them.

Penelope, I find your saying that overweight people (is that acceptable to you, btw?) "are likely to be sensitive about their appearance" quite the most staggeringly offensive thing I have read, actually. Not to mention that it is a huge, sweeping generalisation.

Overweight/porky doesn't automatically equal hideous.

Maybe we do welcome the fact that we can buy clothes to fit us - from a shop which used to be called "Evans Outsize" - should we be grateful for this?

as a consumer group that are limited to very few outlets that cater for them i think it is a better debate to be had as to why that is. Why is there such limited choice for anyone that is outside of the fashion industries decision of what is acceptable.

and I think that most people i know will who wear a size 16 or above would be a little stung to be refered to as a "porker"

Whilst i accept that you may not have intended to be offensive i think that it does not help others see that such terms are offensive if the very group that is offended by them continue to use them.

Nobody should feel sensitive about their appearance because of their size but unfortunately many do. Especially when terms like 'porker' are used in such an offhand way as the OP, regardless of how you may be happy to put yourself down over something that we have far less control over than the diet industry would have us think.

Inconsistent sizing is an issue, but I think their are far bigger issues surrounding the continued socially accepted marginalization people based on size.

General good reading - obesitytimebomb.blogspot.com/ :)

Try the link again! - obesitytimebomb.blogspot.com/

As I frequently despair at the choice on offer in UK to women judged to be outsize (and I currently live in Paris, where it is virtually impossible to buy anything nice above a size 12), opening my own shop is an idea I toy with from time to time. The UK is, however, getting better. In London last week I spent a lot of money in John Lewis and Monsoon - quite deliberately not from a "specialist" shop. I usually go to New York to buy my clothes, as the range and quality is so much better. Obviously they have a much bigger market there, but I see stuff in makes there, that we have in UK, in big sizes, so if they can do it there, why not here?

Manatee - that blogger refers to "fatties"...I don't think that's any "nicer" than "porkers"...

She is a fat activist and academic. Fat activism/academic fat studies uses the term fat positively. The OP did not use 'porkers' positively. And fat is the substance that we are talking about, not pork.

I'm one of those fat porkers (cheers for that...) and I get most of my clothes from New Look, Asda and Tesco. Their sizing is slightly smaller than Evans, but no more than a size or two, and that depends on the style of the clothing. I certainly don't get a 22 in New Look and a size 16 in Evans, they're not THAT far apart. I only buy jeans and boots in Evans, because you need a proper fit on those IMO, the rest comes from cheaper shops that do more fashionable clothes.

Fat studies??? You can do a PhD in Fat Studies?

I wrote my diss in the area of critical obesity geographies. It draws on fat studies which is interdisciplinary - sociology, geography, psychology + more.

Another interesting article relevant to clothing sizes, full text is obv. available if you can get it through a Uni, otherwise the abstract is here - dro.dur.ac.uk/1154/

Calling yourself a 'porker' is not having a sense of humour. It's about lacking self respect and confidence. Op - why do you think your weight means you should be insulted? Why is your weight even worthy of comment?

we call porkers heifers in our house

I don't lack self respect or confidence. Yes, why is weight worthy of comment? But it is. Fat or thin. As is hair colour, clothing, shoes...