to think that "fat shops" like Evans and Ann Harvey don't do their customers any favours by making their sizes much larger than they usually are?

[MrsSchadenfreude]

Was in London last week, nipped into both. Tried on jeans in Evans, even a size 16 was too big (and I am SO not a 16). Went into Horrible Ann Harvey, Polyester Queen, and overheard the woman saying to a customer, "No, the sizes come up much bigger than in regular shops. If you're a size 16 in M & S, there won't be anything here to fit you."

Is this not going to lull porkers (I am one, I am allowed to say that) into a false sense of their own size, if they think, oh I am "only" a size 16, which is not too bad, when actually they are probably a 22+ in "normal" shops?

Do people really have nothing better to think about than what a stranger looks like? That does worry me slightly.

Well, it's a fleeting second, not my entire day, and I would only notice if someone looked fabulous or awful. Most people look fine, or unremarkable, and I couldn't tell you what they wore, or would have no comment on it. Regardless of their size.

And I imagine most people are the same - people do notice, and do judge. When I worked in Paris, I was in one of the smarter arrondissements, where the women were known for their love of plastic surgery - so you would think "Wow, she can hardly move her face" or "Think she's overdone her lips a bit" or "Oooh, botox brows."

I have genuinely learnt something today. That is truly depressing that anyone even has an opinion on what clothes people are wearing or what size they are, I assumed that nobody really gave it a thought. Surely what suits someone is subjective anyway.

Do you never compliment someone on what they are wearing, Livia? That is also a form of judging, as well, surely? While I wouldn't tell someone they looked like a sack of shit, I often tell people that something really suits them, or that a particular colour looks good on them, or that I love their shoes. They may not be terribly excited to be told this by a fat, fiftysomething woman, who doesn't, herself, look like a fashion plate, but it generally goes down well.

To be fair I think the op has a point, lots of people judge others, and women on women can be the worst culprits, from what they are wearing onwards, even if it's a fleeting thought.

Do I tend to do it,,,only in extremes,,as in she's pretty, nice hair, that's s great coat, oh she's too thin, hmm, she's quite heavy, but the thought leaves my head as soon as it enters it.

I think to say " I've never thought of anyone's appearance, weight or clothes , and really didn't know people did", is maybe a bit of an exaggeration to prove a point. I think the op is just being honest.

I have genuinely learnt something today. That is truly depressing that anyone even has an opinion on what clothes people are wearing or what size they are, I assumed that nobody really gave it a thought. Surely what suits someone is subjective anyway.

I'm sorry but I really can't believe that.

I was just reading the thread, Livia and while agreeing with a lot of what you were saying, I was beginning to think you were being a tad disingenuous.

But if as a fully grown woman if you are claiming that you genuinely learned something today, because you've 'learned' that some people have an opinion on what clothes other people are wearing or what size they are, then you have to be on a wind up.

Even if you never watched TV to find this out, you're a fairly regular Mumsnetter.

It's blatantly obvious just from reading posts on here that lots of people have these opinions.

Okay I expressed it wrong - Its more than I am a little shocked at how judgemental people are I think.

No I don't compliment someone's clothing.

I don't know many people (I hope) other than on the TV etc who would be that bothered by what someone else wears. I think life tends to be an echo chamber and there aren't many people in my life who are that bothered by what they wear either. I would be pretty pissed off if I thought that I was being judged for that - it just seems a little shallow.

But then I go round looking like a sack of shite most days so I suppose my lack of fashion sense is fairly obvious!

You don't have to be 'that bothered' by what someone else wears, in order to say "What a lovely coat" or "It really suits you".

I'm not at all into fashion or style and beauty etc, but even I know a nice coat when I see one. Besides, it's a nice thing to say.

Fair enough - I wouldn't know quality from the cheapest crap though.

I only wouldn't use it as a compliment because if I don't specifically think its anything special, why would I mention it? It seems a little false to pay someone a compliment when you don't actually mean it, iyswim.

But then I struggle with social cues sometimes and would assume that someone was taking the piss if they said I looked nice

But then I go round looking like a sack of shite most days so I suppose my lack of fashion sense is fairly obvious!

I try to say at least one nice thing about people when I see them. I think you are in the minority.

And I'm not proud of my lack of knowledge about that sort of thing, it just isn't something that appeals to me.

If I lost all the excess weight, I would STILL look like shite in whatever I was wearing

Also just to add, I don't say it if I don't mean it. I don't think anyone is suggesting people lie.

Is it then maybe you're being overly sensitive because you don't want people to think about your appearance in any way and are reacting strongly because you think now they may give it some thought?

Maybe it is - I hate the idea that people think its any of their business iyswim. I'm struggling to explain myself but it makes me uncomfortable to think that anyone actually cares what I wear.

If I lost all the excess weight, I would STILL look like shite in whatever I was wearing grin

I am definitely a lazy one then

My only rule is for my hair, body and clothes to be clean - anything above that seems too much effort

I think how you look can have a lot to do with your frame of mind. I hated my last job - absolutely loathed it, and got very depressed by it. I would often work from home in my Primarni PJs, and when I did go into the office, I would pick something off my floordrobe, and go in with no make up and unbrushed hair. I absolutely did look like a sack of shit. And didn't care. When I got my new job, I made more of an effort - clean clothes, some new clothes that suited me, make up, got my hair cut and the roots dealt with. I felt (and looked) like a different person - people from my old job commented on this. I was happier, and I think this came across too.

Bluntness has nailed it - they are passing thoughts, but they are still there.

Livia - you don't give someone a compliment because you don't think it's anything special - that would be false. But do you never see someone looking fabulous, or even just wearing something that really suits them?

I agree, you must meet people where you think oh that's s lovely outfit or they look great?

I also agree on frame of mind, I often work from home, when I slob around I look shit, but when the time comes for either going to office or going out with friends and I do my hair and make up and put nice clothes on I feel a lot better about myself. I, just too lazy to get up and do it just to be at home. Honestly sometimes I think it's like two different people. 😂

Not really but then I don't really meet people who I think look particularly shit either. If I do think about it, it must be so fleeting that it doesn't even register.

I couldn't tell you what the person with whom I share an office wore today, and she only left five minutes ago. I dress appropriately for work but only that.

I feel uncomfortable on the odd occasion I have had to dress up, it doesn't make me feel good. That is my issue, I understand that. I used to wear make up etc sometimes but it really was too much effort!

I certainly notice what people look like. What I think rarely comes out of my mouth, but there's room in my head for all sorts of things.