to think that "fat shops" like Evans and Ann Harvey don't do their customers any favours by making their sizes much larger than they usually are?

[MrsSchadenfreude]

Was in London last week, nipped into both. Tried on jeans in Evans, even a size 16 was too big (and I am SO not a 16). Went into Horrible Ann Harvey, Polyester Queen, and overheard the woman saying to a customer, "No, the sizes come up much bigger than in regular shops. If you're a size 16 in M & S, there won't be anything here to fit you."

Is this not going to lull porkers (I am one, I am allowed to say that) into a false sense of their own size, if they think, oh I am "only" a size 16, which is not too bad, when actually they are probably a 22+ in "normal" shops?

Temporary Actually that totally makes sense. And the "I only said it to motivate you" thing drives me batshit! If I want motivation, I will seek it out!

Know your audience is a great motto in life. My friends and I generally tease each other about all kinds of things. However, we know each other well enough to know what is okay and what is off limits.

Its difficult because weight is quantifiable so if someone who is a size eight says they are fat, then notwithstanding any ED, that is going to make other people potentially feel bad in a "oh if you are fat then what am I" kind of way.

If people want to take the piss out of their own weight, then it has the same effect, iyswim. People will say "oh I am a size 14 so I need to lose weight" or whatever, but society has deemed fat to be one of the few things that is BAD and UNACCEPTABLE so it has a kind of value judgement attached.

You probably are overweight at size 16, let's be honest.

I'm nearly 6 ft and not overweight and I wear a 14/16. So... No.

Well I'm 5'9 and a size 14/16 and could lose a couple of stone & would still be carrying extra weight.

Nathan please tell me where you shop where you could wear less than a size 14; anything smaller than that and full length arms come up to my elbows.

(I weight 11.5 st btw so not overweight)

Debenhams mostly. My most comfortable weight is around 9 stone. Even then I was a size 12 mind you.

I'm a bit fat at 14 stone and nearly laughed myself into a hernia at "I bet he can shit"

"I do think people have lost sight of what is a 'normal' size to be"

True. Its why we have Alexandra Burke advertising Slim Fast when she wasnt anywhere near overweight to begin with.

It happens both ways!!!

Ive gone from a 28 down to a size 14. Im happy with this.

The reason sizes change is that shops want to keep their medium the size of the median number of customers, so they change the clothing sizes to fit and scale up and down from that which creates some variety across stores aimed at teenage girls, working age women, post-menopausal women etc which tend to see pretty significant varieties in customer sizing.

Then you add in cheap factories where pattern cutting goes out by a few mm every hundred pieces and you get shops where they don't have consistency amongst their own clothing either. This is particularly bad when a popular line stays year after year, adding a few mm doesn't make much difference at first but by the time you get to a few cm then it's way out sizing wise.

Obviously I presume that Evans, purposefully targeting a plus size market, have chosen to have 20 as their M, with their XS and S being 16 & 18 as opposed to 6 & 8 in other shops, but the same theory applies re: their standard customer which would be why their sizes start to look different to other stores.

I just used an online dress size calculator to find my UK dress size. I am 35-30-37 inches and it said dress size 12. I'm not overweight but I could probably lose a bit. Does anyone have the actual official UK measurements for a size 10, 12 and 14? Surely there is a standard?

The clothes in both these shops are horrendous (why do they use the same horrible polyester for everything). I do somewhat agree with you though, the size 16 in Evans fitted me (but I was at least one size larger in other shops). AH, I was too small for anything, their size 16's were massive on me.
Thankfully, having lost weight, I can wear a normal size 14/16 from M and S or Tesco and Matalans.

The clothes in both these shops are horrendous

So if anyone is wearing clothes from there, you can feel further ashamed that you are a porker AND you wear crap clothes

Are you one of those people who are professionally offended at whatever anyone says, Livia? What one person thinks is obviously subjective, but you appear to take it all personally. It's not all about you, love, or what you wear, or your weight.

at someone comparing being overweight to being a racial minority.

Not professionally offended at all - just find the language used on this thread to be grim and representative of some very judgemental people who say things that they wouldn't have the bollocks to say in RL. But then I don't go for using insults about someone because of what they wear or what they weigh so, ya know, everyone is different.

^^

And yes, I would think that someone fatter than me was a chubster. Or a porker, or a lardarse. Possibly. If I gave it any thought at all. If they had fabulous hair, or seriously good make up, I might think, wow, they look fab.

And I would rather be PO than shallow enough to think that, as long as they have fabulous hair etc they look fab, otherwise they are a lardarse

Who compared being overweight to being a racial minority? I think I missed that!

Everyone judges, Livia, in one way or another. And as I've said before, most judging is done in your head, normal people wouldn't come out and say "Jesus, you look like a hippo in a net curtain - been to Evans again?" Even if that was what they thought.

I judged a girl who was wearing shorts so short that her arse hung out of them (they were more of a thong) going round Notre Dame. She wasn't fat, she was just inappropriately (and badly) dressed.

Okay well maybe I am in a minority then because I don't even notice most of the time when people are overweight/underweight/have nice hair/have shit hair/are dressed inappropriately etc - it doesn't affect me so why would I care?

This thread has been quite the eye opener.

I admit I do judge people but generally by what they do - I don't give a toss what they look like!

Mmm, I think you misread my post. I meant that often the first thing you notice about someone is eg great hair, fabulous lipstick, "on fleek" brows. Anyone, not just the overweight. So I wouldn't think "Oh they look fab despite being a lardarse," I would just think they looked fab.

No, I'm obviously in the minority. All of that stuff goes over my head - I don't have an opinion on what constitutes great hair etc and I wouldn't recognise "on fleek" brows if my life depended on it

But it is always interesting to see how others see you - some of these posts have just made me uncomfortable.

Do you never look at people and think they would look much better if they wore slightly different clothes? I work with one woman who is very large. She has a great chest and good legs - below the knee. She wears very short skirts - I mean really short, barely skimming her arse. She would look really good if she had a knee length skirt (not least for practicality, as she is always pulling down her skirt in a self conscious way, and we often get a glimpse of her flesh coloured Spanx shorts - I'd rather not see anyone's pants in the office). And her tops are always neck throttling - a bit of a scoop or a deep V would do wonders for her. It's obviously up to her what she wears, but she could look so much better without radically altering her style (and saving us from the sight of her pants on a regular basis).

Do you never look at people and think they would look much better if they wore slightly different clothes?

Nope. It doesn't affect me (in your example, I'm sure I could manage to look away and avoid seeing her pants).

It depresses me that people do think like that though. I get that there are acceptable standards of dress. But presumably your colleague meets those, or she would have been told by management to dress differently.

People probably look at me and think I look like shite in what I wear, as again, I don't "get" what suits one woman or looks crap on another. I don't have an opinion on it.