To think that our expectations of babies behaviour in this country are too high?

[Tryharder]

There seems to have been a lot of threads around at the moment along the lines of "my baby is 5 weeks old and still won't sleep through the night" and "my baby won't go 4 hours between feeds, is she just greedy" or "my baby wants to be picked up a lot - is she just manipulative?" You get the picture....

Have just read a post about someone who left a very young baby to cry it out (don't ask me to link) and they are all smug about it because "it worked".

It makes me so cross and sad for the babies concerned who are subject to draconian regimes. Why are we so negative about babies in this country and so determined from Day one to impose on them a routine that makes our lives convenient, not theirs.

I know I will be flamed .

rodformyownback you say that "these books are well referenced and cite many studies showing that leaving babies to cry causes damage. " But you can't even name one.

I've looked and looked, and there is no evidence that I can find, that leaving babies to cry causes any harm whatsoever - unsurprisingly, depriving babies of affection and stimulation, as in Romanian orphanges, is damaging.

If you give your opinion based on your own experiences that is fine, I'd never ask anyone to produce evidence. But on this thread the claim keeps being repeated that parents following normal practice - and leaving a baby to cry, as advised by paediatricians, GPs and health visitors are causing damage to their children, and evidence of this exists somewhere.

That is an outrageous accusation. It is one that might push people who are barely coping over the edge. Nobody making these claims has yet been able to support them, except by pointing to the opinions in a couple of pop-sci books.

Cosleeping is not a gentler or easier way for me. When I have co-slept with DD she has woken up much more regularly and feeds all through the night. Tears each time she wakes up, even if I latch her on almost immediately. The result is both of us being grumpy the next day because we've had a crap night.

When DD is in her cot at the end of my bed she sleeps through until 5, I give her a quick feed and she goes back down until 8. How did I get this result? 3 nights of CC where the longest she cried was 25 minutes, and I never left her if it was hysterical tears. She now goes down to bed without a single tear. I just put her down in her cot, she looks up at me and smiles, then shuts her eyes and goes to sleep. Hardly an ignored hysterical child, as many of you have painted the image of a child within routine.

BennyMoore that's absolute bullshit. I did not neglect my child because I didn't pick her up when she was crying and patted her to sleep instead.

What so when my child is barely whimpering just moaning it's the lack of oxygen that puts her to sleep? Not the fact it's bedtime, she's tucked up in her cot with a belly full of milk and I'm patting her to sleep? Thank you for you're wisdom BennyMoore.

*your

When are you planning on reporting all this to the police BennyMoore?

Benny there's a huge difference between doing controlled crying with an 8 month old where you're going in to reassure them every few minutes, and shutting a 3 month old in a room and leaving them to scream themselves exhausted. I think most people would agree the latter is cruel and neglectful.

Interesting thread.

DD is almost 2.5. I STILL feel guilty and very sad that for the first 6 weeks I was unable to bond properly with her and so left her to cry numerous times :(. I am so ashamed and embarassed that I did that to my daughter and I will never forgive myself.
However, after 6 weeks, something clicked and I never left her to cry for more than a few minutes. Even now at 2.5, I could not leave her if she cried.

What i did do, was work out that even as young as 10 weeks, she woke from a nap for literally2 or 3 mins, cried a bit and then went back to sleep (I found this out by being stuck on the loo in the middle of, ahem, a poo - I was literally unable to get to her in time and she fell back asleep within 2 or 3 mins).
By going in to her immediately, I was actually waking her up and disturbing her.

So I think compromise is needed here. Parents know their babies best. CC is not for me and I would not let my child cry for long periods at any age. However, a few mins just to see what happens may mean you learn about your child's preferred sleeping style.

I am pleased to say that the first 6 weeks do not seem to have damaged her, as we are so very close and I love her to bits :)

I'm expressing my opinion through freedom of speech. I do not try to get at anybody.

I agree with the OP. The best bit of advice I was given was from my mum who said 'your baby has not read all the same books and magazines that you have telling him what he is supposed to do so just relax and give in the the chaos'. Good advice IMO.

Giddy, I went to both of my local social service department and police station, and was told that due to staff shortage as a result of government cut they cannot investigate these issues. What a shame but probably they might undertake an inquiry in the future if these children became known to them.

BennyMoore that is utterly bonkers. Telling people who are doing their best that they are cruel and neglectful is mean and untrue.

Please can you cite where you take your claims from?

I think it's complex.

My ds is 14 months. He has never slept, really. It's time, now, for him to have a routine. Partially because I am back at work but more than that, even.. because I don't agree with being unable to provide structure and routine to his life. My parents always let me "find my own way" and although there have been positive aspects to this, I can't organise my way out of a paper bag and find structure and routine difficult which causes untold difficulties at work.

Kids need consistency, routine and structure, I believe. We have co-slept and done all the sling business and it was truly lovely but as he has become older, he sleeps very poorly in bed with me and can wake up to 15 times a night. He won't settle without me present. It's not good for him, or for me because the real reason I let him do it is because I can't bear to hear him cry.

I don't want to be one of those parents who, down the line, can't discipline my child because I am terrified of upsetting him and who apologises for every authoritative decision I take with a two year old. So the time has come.

Last night he screamed for 40 minutes as I placed him down with a kiss on his head over and over. Eventually, he lay down and I held his hand until he calmed. About three hours later, he finally went to sleep having stroked my hand and giggled at my fingers while I lay silently beside him.

I hate doing it, but I won't avoid doing what's difficult when I know he needs his sleep. It's crucial for his brain development, isn't it? I want the best for him and I believe this is it.

[Grin] at BennyMoore going to the police station to report Gina Ford advocates, can only imagine the sniggering that went on behind the desk

troll clearly.

Why Giddy?

Oh MrsArch - I know the feeling - DS2 keeps going back to sleep after a couple mins whimpering while I'm getting ds1's shoes on, having a poo etc. A few days ago the little bugger actually stopped crying when I put him down! DS1 would never have done this - I don't think. If I couldn't get to him the volume of crying only seemed to go one way - up. But I was SO sensitive to his crying, I would never have left him long enough to find out. I actually used to hold a poo in all day until DH got home so he could hold the baby while I went !

I'm so glad you were able to bond with your baby eventually - please please don't beat yourself up about it. What good will that do anyone? I don't know anything about the factors that led you to struggle to bond with your dd, but I did find it interesting that once you were able to bond with her, you had no desire to leave her to cry. That's how I feel too. It makes me that so many parents feel they have to do the whole routine thing so early, they don't get the opportunity to really "click" with their babies because they are watching the clock, reading the book rather than watching their baby.

I experienced some of this at the other end of the spectrum, as it were. Like working I struggled to know where to put the boundaries between wants and needs as my baby turned into a toddler. When it comes to a time when DH and I have to put our collective foot down, it feels like a big deal but invariably has been easier than we thought it would be (on that tangental note would like to announce that DS1, aged 3.1 has had DRY PANTS ALL DAY at playgroup and CMs. We are very proud!

Because Benny we can all cite complete cobblers when it suits.

Because otherwise it may seem like you are talking unsubstantiated rubbish Benny

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